Should my new P14 Limited be so sloppy?

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TVDean

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As I learn more of the 1911 design, I decided to test some tolerances on the Limited I've had for 3 weeks. The front sight is loose, the bushing rattles, when I shake the gun it rattles, there is considerable movement when I push down on the hood, the slide moves side to side on the frame, about 1/8"(most noticeable when the gun is held upside down and I twist the grip while holding the slide)

I called Para, they said send it in. Am I gonna get the same gun back??
 
Welcome to the world of "factory" 1911's.

I hope the 1/8" side to side movement with the slide is an exaggeration. I have never personally seen one that bad and would think that much movement would allow the slide to come completely off! Even if it's less than that, it's a shame it moves enough that you would even think it was that bad.

It's just a fact in todays market, to save cost, that parts are made in a way that allows them to be assembled by unskilled labor. This means no fitting allowed and if it won't go together it's scrapped. To reduce scrap, the parts are made so they will go together with room to spare and you get a rattle trap pistol.

It would seem that you were unlucky enough to get one of the worst. Most Paras are better than what you describe in fit, although the all have rather rough finishes.

If you stay with 1911's for long, and want them to be really nice, it will be worth the time spent to learn how to do some "home smithing". After I built my first one I wondered how anybody could build and sell one for less than $900. That's about what premium grade parts cost to build one BEFORE they are fitted. After building that pistol I went to my collection and pulled out a Colt Gold Cup. When I realized how truely sloppy it was I sold it. The point here is - I was perfectly satisfied with the Gold Cup before I knew what a good fit felt like. It had always functioned perfectly and was fairly accurate. The fellow who bought it is still satisfied with it to this day.

It all boils down to what you are satisfied with and how much you are willing to pay. Even the fairly sloppy 1911's usually shoot better than I do! Your Para isn't going to fit like a custom pistol and it didn't cost like one either. You didn't mention how it functioned. Let us know what you get back.

Mikey
 
I also have a Gold Cup and very satisified with its performance. I got it second hand but in very good condition. I've had failure to feed until I replaced the recoil spring to 18 lbs (advice of gunsmith). After that the pistol is a shooter, reliable and accurate, this I can say after 2000 rounds of practice ammo. My experience with the Gold Cup led me to learn more about its design (1911 by JMB). Now I have a good idea of what the slide to frame fit should be, fit of barrel to slide, barrel to frame, etc...

I hate to say this but almost all new 1911 bought by my friends needs tuning out of the box. I guess I was lucky to get a tuned Gold Cup. The previous owner was a shooter (migrated to the USA).

In the Philippines, Para Ord cost a lot. Out of the box, the gun has sharp edges that need deburring. Its performance in the range is not so great compared to its price. A locally made 1911 (being sold in the USA as Charles Daly) will out perform Para Ord.



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jj0287
 
I wonder about this PO Limited thing...It's cosmetically one of the most beautiful 1911A1s on the market.

Several months ago I traveled down to the neighborhood gun shop with every intention of buying a Limited PO. When I checked the gun out I found that brand new out of the box it had some lateral slop in the slide/frame fit. So much for a new gun that I elected not to buy the gun. I pointed this out to the dealer who handed me a new Colt Government XS and a new Kimber Classic Custom for comparison. Neither of these had any slop in the slide frame fit. Although slide/frame slop is not the worst thing that can happen to a 1911A1, I feel that a new, out of the box should be free from this problem..

To solve the problem of a loose front sight, try EGW, they make a replacement just for the Limited to solve this problem. www.egw-guns.com

I'm certain that PO will make your gun right...they are a good company. Best of luck!
 
IMHO...

........no, but it's a Para.


STI/SV........


........and I'll stick to my high-cap nines and my M20.......

.......and you get what you pay for (except Kimber - they seem to give more value for your dollar).

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
Your loose front sight is definitely a problem. Also, should not be able to push down on barrel hood and make it move more than very slightly. Slide frame fit is really not an issue unless you are an extremely accurate shooter, then it will give you a slight edge to have the slop taken out.

I bought a P16 Limited, which is basically the same thing, except in 40 Short & Weak. It locked up tighter than a mouse's rectum. Very nice pistol. The gun was very nice for a production model, well fitted, good trigger. Just a little unwieldy with the adjustable sights, ambi safety etc. I didn't care for the finish, kinda cheap looking for a $700 pistol.

I went back to my Commander Colt 45 for IPSC. I just am a purist, I guess!

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Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
 
Hi, guys,

With modern CNC tooling, it should not cost much more to produce a well fitted pistol than it does a sloppy one. But the fact is that when a maker becomes successful by turning out quality products, the natural tendency is to turn out more and expand the business. And if the maker is not very careful, QC goes in the tank with increased production, and a carefully built up reputation goes with it. I won't name names, but I should not have to. We all know who they are.

Compounding the problem is that few of today's 1911 clones are made in toto in the same factory. Most are assembled from parts made all over the world and bought in lots as needed from the lowest bidder. This does not lend itself to consistent quality.

Jim
 
Amen, Rev. Jim, Amen! Take that, Colt clones! ;)

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Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
 
Well thanks guys, (gals)??.

I guess buying a $750 gun (1911) these days is a gamble. The tolerances for the frame & slide must be at opposite ends of the acceptable scale. That's what bugs me, they gambled with those wide scales knowing it is fully possible that a gun may be assembled with a horribly bad fit.
I'll send it in and see what they'll do.

Talking on the phone to the warranty dept. I was told that they actually have gunsmiths there, unlike the factory where goons assemble the pistols. That actually makes me feel better, although I don't know how this got past Q.C. (well I got a couple ideas)
 
Mikey,
I apparently was exagerating. I don't have calipers but my scale tells me 1/16th of an inch. The most foward part of the frame, as I hold the gun upside down, moves this much perpindicular to the slide.

Is that still too much??
 
TVDean,

That's a good question. If the total movement is 1/16" then its just 1/32" to each side. I just checked my Springfield (my only factory 1911) and doing the test exactly as you described, it moves about that much. In fact that's about the size of the clearance between the recoil spring plug housing area of the slide and the corresponding radius in the dust cover of the frame - in other words, I can make them touch! The interesting thing to note here is they NEVER touch during firing.

This gun also exhibits some movement when the barrel hood is depressed but it goes into battery consistently. I've used this piece for over three years and, while I've tweaked the outside with added parts and polished some of the internals, the fit is still "factory". It ain't no bullseye gun but I've shot IDPA stages clean with it (with competitive times) including a required head shot on the move at 7 yards during last Sunday's match.

The bushing being loose in your gun is an easy and relatively cheap fix, as is the front sight. If you still want to send it to Para, that won't hurt and you might get some good results - it certainly won't come back worse than it is now. If you want to just fix it yourself then find a smith or fellow club tinkerer and let them show you how - but be aware that your warranty will be trash at that point.

You still haven't commented on how the gun shoots. Is it relatively accurate? Is it reliable? Are you satisfied with it's functionality. That's why I keep my Springfield. It's a carry piece. It works. It's more accurate than it deserves to be so I keep it. I bet my life on it quite often - nuff said.

Mikey
 
Ahh,... the functioning. Well, is hasn't misfired in 500 rds.

Accuracy isn't as good a my buddies Bar-Sto'd colt. My para shoots 1.5" @ 30 feet, same day ,same ammo with his gun at same distance .5" !!
 
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