Should I call the police?

F

FUD

Moderator
Need advise QUICK ...

Southern Florida is presently being hammer by heavy thunderstorms. My sister-in-law stopped by earlier today to take my wife and the little one over to her place and the plan was for me to come pick them up when I was finished with work.

As I was sitting here waiting for my program to compile, I was surfing on TFL when I heard a chime (I added electronic chimes to all of the external doors whenever they are opened) and something about it didn't feel right. As it was pouring rain outside, I didn't think that it was my wife since she would not want the little munchkin to get wet. Plus, my sister-in-law wouldn't want to get wet either and they would have normally called if there was a change in plans so that we wouldn't end up missing each other on the road.

As Im said. something about that chime didn't feel right. I grabbed my {pre-agreement} Smith & Weson 4513TSW loaded with 7 rounds of Remington 230gr Golden Saber which I keep in a strong box in my study where I was working.

As I stepped out of my study I noticed a man with his back toward me shutting the sliding glass door in the living room. Apparently my wife didn't bother to lock it when she left. This situation reminded me very much of a topic that I had posted here earlier.

As he was shutting the door, I noticed that his hands appeared to be empty and I pointed my firearm at him and said in a loud firm voice: "Don't Move". Of course, when he heard me speak he quickly turned around and my finger instantly went onto the trigger as he was only about 12-18 feet away from me and I didn't know what was going to happen next.

He backed up a few steps and nearly knocked over a lamp which I had won as an award back in 1974 so it had special meaning to me. I looked at him and he looked at me and said something to the effect: "Hey man, be cool, I'm not looking for any trouble." I replied with: "Who the *&^%( are you and what the (^&@$#(* do you want here?". he then said something like: "It's wet outside and I came in to get out of the rain.". To which I respond that he was trespassing in a private home and he better leave NOW.

He then opened the sliding glass door and left.

My question is, should I call the police and report this and can I be charged with aggravated assault for pointing a gun at him?

Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
fud-nra.gif
 
Fud,
He was in your house. I don't think their would be any question that you were in the right. However, I'm not familiar with Florida law. I know in Indiana, if they're in your house they're yours. I think I'd call the police if I were you. If there have been breakins in your area lately, you may be able to ID the guy for them. He obviously thinks your house is his. What if he decides to come back later to finish whatever it is you put a stop to? Next time you might not be home, but the wife could be. You need this guy caught!

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Refuse to be a "helpless" victim.
Knowing Your Rights WAGC in Indiana
Come have some fun at theTFL End of Summer Meet, August 12th & 13th, 2000
 
FUD<
Call the police at once. This man is a criminal, and needs to be off of your streets. Thank goodness you were armed, or who knows what might have happened.

Good Luck

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Audemus jura nostra defendere
 
FUD,

Call the cops and get a report in. There is no way this guy was getting out of the rain. There is another reason to get a police report files, CYA! You need to get your side of the story on paper and in the hands of the authorities pronto. A lawyer once told me that the person who files first, usually wins. What is to prevent this mutant from going to the police and saying that he was minding his own business when the crazy man started waving a gun and threatening him?

A fellow at a local gunshop almost lost his license (CCW and FFL) because of something similar. He was in a minor traffic accident that degraded to a little shouting match. Realizing he was armed and not wanting to cause any further stress, he removed his gun and placed it on the dashboard of the car.

It was two weeks after the accident when he was arrested for "brandishing". The person who hit him, went to the cops and filed a complaint that he was threatening him with the gun.

Rule of thumb, if you pull a gun on somebody, report it. Or keep pumping rounds until the bad guy stops twitching. Then call the cops. :)

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Joe Portale
Tucson, Arizona Territory

"Those who turn their swords into plow shears,
end up plowing the fields of those who didn't"
Thomas Jefferson
 
FUD,
First of all, yes call the police and make a report, you need to help the cops get this BG off the street. You won't get in trouble for brandishing as Florida has a legal precedent called the "Castle Doctrine" involving principly a CCW and defense of the home, but also covers the ordinary gun owner.

It is my understanding that if you are outside in public and armed you have a responsibility to retreat from a confrontation until you can’t anymore, and then and only then can you use deadly force to protect yourself.

If you are inside your house and you discover or are confronted by a trespasser, you DO NOT have to retreat.
It's pretty clear that this is the case here, so what you did was legal in the eyes of the law in Florida. You were simply protecting yourself in your home from an unknown intruder.

He's DAMN lucky you didn't cap his a##. If you did that, It's my understanding that you still would have been in the clear as you didn't know the intruders intent. In this case it can be legally presumed that he was there to commit a crime and harm the occupants of the house, you and your family.

Now I'm not a lawyer, just a CCW holder for the state of Florida, and this is the best understanding I have regarding this legal issue. If any legal experts out there have a better understanding of the "Castle Doctrine", please let me know. Neither I nor anyother TFL member needs to go to jail over a misunderstanding of the law.

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"TANSTAAFL"- R.A. Heinlen

"Molon Labe"- Leonidas to Xerxes at Thermopile

[This message has been edited by Mordwyn.45 (edited June 09, 2000).]
 
I agree with the others. File a report with the police, description of suspect and details. If he comes back and you are forced to shoot him, the report will show that this person had already "feloniously trespassed" (in some states, that's the term). If, for some reason, the idiot were to attack you OUTSIDE your home, again the report shows previous intent to commit a crime by this person.

EDIT: If you have NOT disturbed the door where he came in, the police might be able to pull some prints and run them. If they hit a match, they'll have even more incentive to try and catch the guy. If the guy is already "in the system", and if you later have to protect yourself against him, you'll be even better off.
JMHO. J.B.

[This message has been edited by Jay Baker (edited June 09, 2000).]
 
Mordwyn45 has a good point. In NC there is no duty to retreat if you are in your own home. Sic the police on this butthead!
 
If the guy wasn't a BG, then he is deranged or incapacitated in some way. I cannot imagine walking unannounced into another's home. Rain or no rain. Contact the authorities.
 
Mordwyn has the Florida facts straight. CCW doesn't enter into the matter if you're in your own home, and castle doctrine cancels "duty to retreat". Good job, Mord!

You were probably wise to run him off instead of perforating him. Lots more paperwork, and possibly civil suits from him or his next of kin (depending on whether you made a one-shot kill). If he'd showed a weapon or rushed you, you'd have been OK to fire.

Call the Police/Sheriff and give them the best description you can. You just might save the next person from being robbed, raped or killed.

Good job to you, too, FUD, for keeping your head and handling the situation properly.

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Dave
Deep in the Florida Swamps
 
Fud,

I have followed many of your posts -- first and most important, I am very glad you and your family are fine.

Second, call the police and make a report immediately! I don't believe his "get out of the rain" story for one moment. Do you try doors to see if they're unlocked in a downpour? If he were taking shelter on a porch (or something similar), his credibility would be much better than INSIDE YOUR HOME. Also, don't touch the sliding glass door, since the police may be able to lift fingerprints from it.

All this said -- and with zero facts -- I'll bet: (a) this guy was attempting an easy-opportunity B&E and (b) the cops have several unsolved B&Es with similar MOs.

Best regards -- Roy
 
UPDATE ...

I called the police last night (when TFL was down for a few hours) because I felt that it would be best to have this on record as some have already mentioned.

Dummy me, however, I wiped the guys prints off the door -- he got everything wet and without thinking, I took some paper towels to wipe off the water. As a result, there was no point in the police taking prints. Although, the deputy did take down the description and said that they would keep an eye out for him.

Looking back, putting the door chimes on the door was a good idea. I originally put them up because the little munchkin was learning how to open doors and we wanted to be alerted if an outside door was ever opened but it also proved beneficial last night as well since I would have never heard him come in as I was on the other side of the house and the noise from the thunder & heavy rain muffled a lot of the noise. Regards,

FUD
fudeagle.gif

Share what you know, learn what you don't.
 
As you described it, you may have had justification for shooting him when he turned around. However, I think you showed good judgement. You were well within your rights IMO. I would call the cops and tell them what happened. That guy might decide to call the cops first.
 
I think you have gotten good advice on home protection . 40 years ago I lived in FL and snuck out one night and went to a buddies house so we could go drink beer . Of course we got busted . My dad told me that my buddies dad could have shot me on the spot . He said that just walking off the front walk at night was as good as trespassing . It was O.K. to walk up to the door but get off the path and you were a burglar . FL was very self defense orientated at that time and probably still is .
The fact that the guy didn't see you makes me think he was just a bozo trying to get out of the rain . If he was a thief he would have (imho) looked around before sealing off his escape . Or even left it open so he could run out with his loot if seen later . He was no doubt wrong and put you in a bad spot . Some kind of warning on that door when opened is a REALLY!!!! good idea .

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TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA
 
FUD you have much more control than I would. I would have shot him and called the police once he did not have a valid answer. I bought a house in OKC in 1989, about 2 months after I bought it a man came walking in the front door who I did not know. The only things that kept me from instantly shooting him were: 1) he was old (70's), 2) he looked very confused, 3) it was in in the middle of the day. Apparently he had wandered away from his nursing home and walked (about 6 blocks) to my house that I had purchased from his daughter and her family. The old guy thought he would go for a visit and was use to walking in. This I found out after calling the police. Young, able bodied male, at night, no chance.
 
FUD, ditto to all above.

What do you 'spose would have happened if you hadn't been armed?

Definitely make the report. Make the case known, allow the LEo to do their job. It's been said time and time again, LEO are historians...allow them to make history here.
If for no other reason, if this guys comes back, and decides to whatever, his previous intentions, or actions are known then. Thereby giving you more credibility in the event he ever does get real stupid. See what I mean.

Best Regards,
Don

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The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms;
History shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler
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"Corrupt the young, get them away from religion. Get them interested in sex. Make them superficial, and destroy their rugged- ness.
Get control of all means of publicity, and thereby get the peoples' mind off their government by focusing their attention on athletics, sexy books and plays, and other trivialities.
Divide the people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance."

Vladimir Ilich Lenin, former leader of USSR
 
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