Should I buy a H&K P7M8 or PSP?

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Big Dave

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Greeting:

Here I go again. I can't stop dreaming about the P7. (What's the name of that disorder?) I posted the following to the H&K Discussion board but wanted to make sure I didn't miss any feedback.

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I'm set on purchasing a P7. However, I need some input on which flavor (M8 or PSP).

I do prefer the feel and look of the PSP over the M8. But, I have heard the PSP gets hot and the trigger pull is longer.

I will use it for occasional target practice and hopefully that's it. No conceal carry. Won't be loaded at home...

It will be my first H&K and will probably keep it for life.

Is there a noticable difference in how the two guns perform (due to the trigger pull or anything else)?

Is there a difference in quality of construction between the PSP and M8?

Are there any other reasons that I should consider getting the M8 over the PSP(mag...parts availablility)?

Thanks,

Dave
 
Why not the M13? You can still find them used, although many times they're overpriced. I liked the grip of the M8 better when I handled them, but I've gotten used to my M13 finally.
 
Hi,

The M13 didn't feel as good as the smaller ones. Plus, in Hawaii, I would face a felony if I was found to have a 13 round clip inserted in the gun. They are very strict with the gun laws.

Take care,

Dave
 
I agree with the comment on M13. I recently sold my NIB P7M13 for $1200 and bought a NIB P7M8 for $1000. I like the M8 much better, it is the right size and balance. The M13 feels more like an after thought to add more capacity to the M8.
 
BigDave -

For the occasional target practice you state, either will do just fine. Both are extremely accurate. Your decision will likely be driven more by availibility then which is better.

If reloading under fire/stress or protacted gunfights become an issue, go with the M8. The reloading comment is based on the assumption that you are more familiar with the American (1911) style mechanism over the European style mechanism.

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Freedom is not Free
 
Hello. I once had a P7M13, but got rid of it as it just didn't feel "right." Currently, I own only one HK, a P7PSP and prefer it to the P7M8,but this is subjective. I do agree with the other gentleman who noted that quick reloads may be enhanced by the M8's magazine button's location. Best.
 
Question for P7M8 owners. I just bought a used factory refurb P7M8. The manual is completely and only in German. Since the gas system is new to me, I could really use the info contained in the manual. Is there a place on the web where I can find cleaning instructions? Thanks in advance.
 
Pilate -
Check with the shop/store you got it from, often they will have extra manuals in their files. Absent that, read below.

Cleaning is essentially a four step process (order is upto you): After you have removed the slide,

1) remove the grip panels, hose the action down with Gun Scrubber (or equal), add a few drops of oil at the pivot points, and put the grips back on.

2) gas cylinder cleaning, the gun should have come with a brush and scraper. Insert the scraper into the cylinder (under the barrel) rotate clockwise, and then turn the gun upright so the debris falls from the cylinder. Use the brush to loosen up the powder residue if needed.

3) cleaning the barrel. I prefer the OTIS Bore cleaner, or Sweets. Use IAW with the instructions on the bottle.

4) cleaning the slide. I use a toothbrush and Hoppes #9 or RB-17. NEVER, I repeat never, scrub the piston with anything harsher then a cotton patch or soft toothbrush. A little buildup on the piston is okay, and in fact helps the gun to function better. I rarely find it necessary to remove the firing pin assembly for cleaning, since I hose the entire slide down with Gun Scrubber after cleaning the other parts. The GS usually gets the firing pin assembly clean enough. Periodically I do remove the firing pin assembly and clean and oil it, especially after several sessions of IWB carry in the summertime. The spring on the firing pin is the only tricky part of the operation, since there is not much to grip on. Go careful, and slow here, and where your safety glasses.

Points of note: Do not shoot lead through the P7 series it will screw up the gas system. Pay attention to the frame rails just in back of the breech end of the barrel, powder residue does build up here and may require scrubbing to clean off.
The P7 is a pretty simple gun to clean, as long as you do it regularly.

Did I forget anything guys?

P.S. Pilate if you want a copy of the manual in english, email me with your address and I will send a photocopy.

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Freedom is not Free

[This message has been edited by ATM (edited October 02, 1999).]
 
Thanks very much. That was pretty much the info I was seeking. I fired the first 50 through it today. Shoots really nice except in the accuracy department... Perhaps I just need to get used to the new format, or the ammo didn't agree. I am pretty competent with my Glocks and Sigs (okay, so I have a thing for European pistolas), so I'm hoping it was the Winchester 115 ball. Any recommendations for factory range fodder?

Thanks again.
 
Pilate -

Could you clarify the accuracy part, are you shooting off of point of aim? or are you getting scattergun patterns? The P7 has such a short and relatively light trigger stroke that you might be slapping against the frame on the end of the stroke. This can cause a result similar to jerking the trigger or anticipating, i.e. groups low and to your weakhand side.

Try some 124 grn stuff, American Eagle comes in this weight. I get very good accuracy from my PSP with 115 grn PMC, in fact same point of aim as with the hotrod 115 grn rounds from TRITON and Cor-Bon. Unless HK has changed their rifling pattern the 147 grns are not worth pursuing, IMHO.

Good luck.

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Freedom is not Free
 
Well, I won't say anything officially until I go to the (not very) local range. It was only a box of 50 split between myself and a novice friend in his back yard. Not really enough to go on. I think my local shop has those PMC's. I'll have to pick some up. I'll post the results here. And thanks, ATM, I'll let you know if I need some cash.
 
Hello Pilate;
Try Remington Golden Saber 125 gr +P jacketed HPs. I have two P7M8s, and it is the most accurate round in both of them. Any HP seems to be more accurate than any FMJ in the P7s, for some unknown (to me) reason. The 115 gr JHPs are also quite accurate (and obviously you'll have to find what works best for you, with your particular P7, by trial & error), but the Remington GS in 125 gr +P should certainly be one of the rounds you test. Best of luck.

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"Potius sero quam nunquam."
 
Thanks for that. My defense load of choice is the 124+P Gold Dot, but if that doesn't work out, I'll give the GS a shot.

Another question for the P7 literate. Then the gun is drawn in a defense situation, when should the cocker be squeezed? During the draw, once on the target, or just before pulling the trigger? I'd think that during the draw is out of the question, and once on the target would make the most sense. Any tips?
 
Pilate -
The gun should always be cocked as part of the normal grip process, for me this occurs as I my draw clears the holster (not on the initial contact with the gun). This is completely safe as long as you keep your finger off the trigger. This is also what gives the P7 its speed of operation, all you have to do when on target is pull the trigger. If you bobble the gun (somehow) the instant you release the grip the gun is decocked and incapable of being fired.

In a defensive situation cocking while gripping is essential to allow fast accurate firing on the first shot. If you attempt to squeeze while bringing the gun up on final alignment, you are by definition still adjusting your grip. Not something you want to be doing, since it increases the chance of bobbles, badly aimed shots, or gun takeaway.

In short always use the gun as designed, which in the case of the P7 is to squeezecock as you grip the gun on the upward portion of the draw stroke out of the holster.

Hope this helps.

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Freedom is not Free

[This message has been edited by ATM (edited October 05, 1999).]
 
Hello again Pilate;
What ATM said is correct,IMO.
H&K refers to the entire movement of drawing & firing this pistol as being accomplished by their "Continuous Motion Principle", and the acquisition of an "index" or firing grip should occur as the weapon is grasped, and said grip will be a firm one, necessarily depressing the squeeze-cocker (which requires 12-13# of pressure). As ATM said, this is COMPLETELY safe, as long as you obey Rule 3, since ALL well-designed, properly-functioning guns are safe with obedience to that rule.
It is this automatic squeezing of the frontstrap on obtaining a firing grip that makes the weapon so fast to bring into action, since the only subsequent activity required by the shooter is "front sight...press", with repetition as necessary.
Good luck.

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"Potius sero quam nunquam."
 
Don't know if anybody told you yet, but no lead bullets in the P7 please. Gas Action and you don't want it clogged with lead.

I like the P7 and it is a marvel of German Engineering. However, I would prefer to issue the PSP since it's reliable and the armorer's task is easier. Just a lazy man's opinion and this isn't meant to reflect poorly on the P7.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
Thanks for the comments, gents. What you have said makes sense. I'll have to practice the techniques before I start carrying it.
 
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