Should ball be level with front face of cylinder?

G

Gaz_in_NZ

New member
Hi,
I've been told that the ball in any BP revolver (I have a Walker and two 1858 Remington New army... all Uberti) should be exactly level with the front face of the cylinder.
With the best will in the world my loaded cylinder has them at all levels (no air gap) and the ram rod on the Walker can push a ball in by 1/2 inch before it hits the stop and the Remies just short of that.
I use 21grs of Goex, course ground semolina as a filler (although I do prefer cracked wheat which is coarser) and a .457 ball.
So, what is the correct way to do it?
If they are low in the cylinder is it a problem?
Trying to get them all level with the front face is just an impossibility.
Or is there some easy way that I am missing out on?

Cheers and Thanks in advance.
Gaz
 
Unless you have a brass frame there is no reason to load so wimpy and use filler. I have Pietta and Armi San Marcos that are old armies that I regulary charge with 30 grains and I charge my Uberti Walker with 50 grains so I dont wear the wedge even though it will handle 60 grains.

I started my nephew out when he was five shooting 30 grains in one of my Armi San Marcos and he was all grins in a cloud of smoke. I bought an old CVA for his son and he shot it just fine with 30 grains when he was five too.

Stop worrying about the ball height in the cylinder and just charge them with the appropriate grains of the appropriate powder.
 
Last edited:
Remmington 1858

Get hold of a powder flask with the correct nozzle to throw suffcient semolina so that when the ball is loaded it is just below the cylinder face, this also means less grease on top of the ball.
For accuracy try 20grains of 3F powder, semolina and smear of grease. The ball being almost level with the face of the cylinder saves the ball having to jump a gap into the forcing cone. Does it make any difference? Just know it works for me. Good luck with your shooting.
 
Depends on what you are shooting for. You in some competition, or trying to get all 6 in one hole.
Just for ringing steel or shoot cans I load light and don't worry, long as there is enough powder and wad the ram compresses it.
 
Supposedly the closer to the rifling the ball is the more accurate the shot will be.
Having said that I find that its utterly inconsequential as the gun outshouts me anyway!

I use the load that gives me the best groups, which in my .44 NMA is 28 Gr with a paper mache lubed under ball wad. With this load I'm behind the face of the cylinder a little but I don't have a problem with that as its a safety should a ball jump forward under recoil a little it won't tie up the cylinder.
 
Gaz_in_NZ said:
I've been told that the ball in any BP revolver (I have a Walker and two 1858 Remington New army... all Uberti) should be exactly level with the front face of the cylinder.
Click to expand...

If you are shooting long range bullseye targets, or are severely OCD, it could be beneficial. For general plinking target shooting, ringing steel, or CAS matches; it doesn't make one iota of difference. When I load my '61 Navies with 22 gr fffg BP, Wad, and .380 ball, none of the balls are even with the chamber mouth. In fact, they're not even with each other. Loaded like this, 6" plates at 10 yards are no problem.
 
robhof

There's been plenty of testing and discussion on this site and THR about bullet depth. With mu modern pistols and 100 to 200yd ranges, I'm ocd about bullet length, but I've tried my various B/p pistols with various seating depths and found no noticeable difference in group sizes, in fact my Walker clone grouped slightly better with the deeper set balls than with the cylinder top ones. If as said, you want to make one hole groups, then by all means; polish the bore, weigh the slugs and the wads and have fun, otherwise you are making work for yourself, that's been proven unnecessary!:cool::D
 
It's all going to depend on what load you are using and if you are using a filler or not. You already now you want no air space between powder and ball.

Look . . . if someone wants to shoot "max" loads and they think that any less than that is "wimpy" . . . then that's up to them. I've been shooting BP revolvers for over 50 years and it depends on the revolver what load is going to be the most accurate. Shooting a "max" load because it's not "wimpy" is like saying always load your cartridge to the "maximum" load - "just because you can". A max load is not always going to give you the most "accurate" load. The same as in any BP rifle whether it be a front stuffer or a BPCR.

Seating a ball below the face of the cylinder is a fully acceptable practice as long as you have no air space and a somewhat compressed load. Seating the ball further down in a cylinder is no different than shooting 38 Spl. in a 357. Yes there is "bullet jump" in to the forcing cone but that doesn't make an inaccurate load. I commonly shoot 38 Colt Shorts out of a 357 - both smokeless and BP and they are very accurate but with much powder than in a 38 Spl.

If you want to load "max loads" all the time . . . that's a person individual business. . . . but it isn't all about "being able to", how much smoke or noise you can make or how macho you can be. For most folks, it's all about coming up with a load that is accurate out of their handgun, rifle or whatever . . . plus in the end your powder will last longer.
 
Unless you have a brass frame there is no reason to load so wimpy and use filler.
Click to expand...
I use the "Wimpy" load as you kindly put it, for consistency and accuracy... in competitions it's the highest score that wins not who makes the most noise.

Thanks to all who replied, much appreciate it.
Cheers
Gaz
 
I had posted this information before; you can read the post here:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=549051

I did some testing with a Pietta 1863, Pietta 1860, and Uberti 1858.

First I took an empty chamber and pressed a ball into place using the gun's loading lever. Then I removed the nipple and filled the chamber with powder until I reached the level of the bottom of the threads for the nipple.

I then poured this out and weighed it. The results:

1860: 17.2 grains 3F
1858: 32.9 grains 3F
1863: 22.6 grains 3F

For my guns, this is the minimum uncompressed load that can be put into the chamber without resulting in an air gap between the powder and the ball.

I then worked up no-filler loads from these minimum charges up to the maximum the chamber was able to hold with a ball. I then worked up filler loads from these minimum charges up to the maximum the chamber was able to hold with a ball.

In no case was a load found without filler that performed as accurately as loads with filler.

My conclusion is that yes, it is beneficial to accuracy to load the ball such that it seats as close to flush with the cylinder face as possible, and that maximum accuracy comes at a load that will require filler to achieve this.

I have only performed the load work-ups on my 1858 currently.

If you are going to load "service loads", which are basically the maximum amount of powder you can put under the ball and still load the ball, then the filler issue is moot, but you will almost certainly find you do not achieve maximum accuracy at the maximum load.

Steve
 
No, not OCD, I just have heard this debate more than once so I decided to experiment to determine the answer.

With all of my modern guns, I just shoot whatever and take what I get.

But I shoot revolvers competitively in the NSSA at 25 and 50 yards, and BP guns will change their group size tremendously based on load.

The question was asked (again) if putting the ball at the front of the cylinder matters. For maximum accuracy, preliminary results seem to indicate yes.

I've taken medals at every single competition I have shot in over 3 years.

Steve
 
Dang it Hawg!! So YOU"RE the one that screwd up the ozone !! ;)

I agree with Fingers.

I would think that a c&b revolver would be the least affected by the length of free bore the bullet travels in the chamber. Since it is sized at loading, it accomplishes what folks try to get to with cartridge guns, perfect fit! When using a bigger ball, say .457 when .454 is good or .454 when .451 is good, you still end up with the same dia. but you are increasing the length of the side wall thus having a more stable projectile. I think this is why folks get better results with the larger dia. ball.
So, i think the bullet in a cartridge revolver being closer to the chamber mouth may have a greater effect on accuracy than the ball position in a c&b revolver.
Just my opinion of course.

www.goonsgunworks.com
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top