Shotgun reloads

[cdoc42]

Based on listed pressures in PSI, I chose to load 1-1/8-oz of#7-1/2 and #8
in 12-GA Win AA hulls with ClayBusters CB1118-12 wads (equivalent to AA wads) and Hi-Skor 800X powder. The last item to choose is a primer.

With CCI primers, 22.5 gr of 800X gives 1150fps and 5400 PSI.

24.0gr gives 1200 fps and 6100 PSI.

With Fed 209A primers, 23.0gr gives 1200 fps and 6800 PSI

With Win 209 primers, 23.0gr gives 1200fps and7100 PSI

I could not find any data using Remington-97 (209) primers.

I elected to load 23.0gr of 800X with CCI because I would get between 1150 and 1200fps with the lowest PSI (lower than 6100 PSI).

I use a Ruger Red Label O/U shotgun. Much to my surprise, when I break open to reload I find significant amounts of unburned powder in the barrels and action well. The maximum load listed is 25.5gr for 1250 fps.

What might explain the presence of unburned powder?

 

[Rod47]

Your powder choice is too slow burn rate. Red Dot or Green Dot would be s better choice.

 

[cdoc42]

Thanks, Rod47.

I checked various 1-1/8oz 12Ga loads on the Hodgdon shogun website. I have these primers available: CCI209, Rem97 (209), Fed209A and Win 209.

Formulas with Green call for Rem 209P; those with Red call for CCI209M. I assume these are magnum primers-?

Rather outstanding are formulas with Longshot. One can get velocities 1420, 1475 and 1530 fps with pressures ranging from 10,000PSI to 11,100 PSI. IMR Red produces 10,500 to 11,000 PSI and gives 1200 fps.

Do you see any advantage in those higher velocities?

 

[Rod47]

Not really. Higher velocity will probably open up patterns. A lot of top trap shooters will use 2 and 3/4 DDE loads for handicap

 

[ammo.crafter]

red green show

Try green dot with CCI 209. My daughter uses that combo in her Ruger O/U for report pairs for rabbits and springing teal. No unburned powder and easy shell ejection.

 

[FITASC]

I reload a 3/4oz 12 and 20 gauge load (28 gauge level); I needed to bump up the charge of Titewad 1.5 grains to eliminate the unburned powder in the barrels of my O/U and my gas guns. These loads run 1275 and are soft on the shoulder.
There is absolutely no need to shoot 1-1/8 oz shoulder bruisers for any clay target out there.

 

[cdoc42]

FITASC, I agree with you. There is a difference between 7/8 to 1-oz and 1-0z to 1-1/8oz of 51 pellets in each case.

If you consider 1-1/8oz of #8 differs by 51 with 1-oz, even with 1-oz you have 410 pellets.

But a thought just came to mind. If your 3/4oz is going 1275 fps what's the pressure difference to contribute to recoil compared to 1-1/8oz going the same speed? Is it really a shoulder bruiser or is that more related to how one mounts the shotgun?

 

[Unclenick]

In general, for all kinds of guns, slower-burning powders give you more velocity for a given peak pressure, but also require higher peak pressure to burn completely. This is because pressure raises the actual burn rate of the powder, as opposed to the burn rate on a relative burn rate chart, which only applies exactly to a standardized set of test conditions.

 

[FITASC]

CDOC - using this site's calculator:
http://www.omahamarian.org/trap/shotshellenergy.html
and a constant of 8.5# gun and 18 grains of powder,
3/4oz = 11.1 @1275fps
1oz = 17.5@1275
1-1/8oz = 21.2 @ 1275

While the difference between the two extremes is almost double, recoil energy doesn't increase in a linear fashion

For loads running 1200, we get the following:
3/4oz = 10.0
1oz = 15.7
1-1/8oz = 19.1

Gun fit DOES come play of course as well.

I have a 7mag. Using 8# for the gun, a 160gr projectile at 3000fps, the recoil energy is 24.43, not a lot over the 1-1/8@1275; but most folks do not go and shoot 100-200 7mags in a day or their shoulder would be seriously damaged.

 

[cdoc42]

ammocrafter, I went ahead and bought Green Dot but when I researched recipes all I see for primers are CCI209M, Fed 209A and Rem 209P.

I have a ton of CCI 209 and Rem 97 (209). Do I have to buy The M and Pprimers?

 

[cdoc42]

I found this on another website:

B. Primers
• CCI 109 and CCI 209 are ballistically identical and can be interchanged.
• CCI 209M (Magnum) is “hotter” and cannot be substituted for CCI 109 or 209. Use 209M only as listed.
• Rem. 209 is “hotter” and cannot be substituted for Rem. 97★ or Rem. 209P primer.
• Rem. 209P is interchangeable with Rem. 97★ primer.
• Federal 209A is “hotter” and cannot be substituted for Federal 209.

I get the impression if a recipe calls for a non-magnum primer, you should not substitute a magnum primer (CCI209M or Rem 209)

Strangely, my box of Remington shotgun primers is labeled "97* (209)" - is it a 209 (hotter) or just a 97?

 

[cdoc42]

FITASC, thanks for that link. I did post thanks previous to the note to ammocrafter but I see it never made it.