Shot Placement of Heavy for Caliber Bullets to the Vitals

1

147 Grain

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Heavy for caliber bullets like the 9mm 147-gr., 40 S&W 180-gr., and 45 ACP 230-gr. provide the extra penetration needed to get through extremities or bones before reaching the vitals. Almost all controlled and informal testing through various media shows a pattern of heavier bullets outperforming their lightweight counterparts across all caliber lines. (While middleweight bonded bullets are coming around nicely, heavyweight bonded projectiles still [usually] outperform them.)

The FBI uses common sense when it says that 62% of the time in OIC's, a bullet must pass through an arm / leg, or penetrate odd angles before reaching the vitals. This is why their minimum penetration standard of 12" - 16" is in effect. They also teach to aim a little higher than many PD's (used to) do because there are more significant vital areas between the armpits and above than below that area. It's no secret when PD's state that more than 1/2 of OIC's are at "odd angles" where the bullet travels a longer distance than most civilians imagine.

When someone's life is on the line, immediately stopping the threat is paramount! BG's usually expire more quickly with higher center-mass hits than the older thinking of around the bottom of the ribs / sternum (like the old-style targets encouraged you to aim for). Notice that in the past decade, range targets have raised their center ring about 3" higher than it used to be.

A couple of well-placed bullets dead-center (or a tad to the right) between the armpits can be your best friend when your life is on the line. Self defense priorities should include:

1. Shot Placement: Center Mass Between the Armpits
2. Bullet Construction / Heavy for Caliber Weight
3. Choice of Caliber
 
Excellent post.
I wish uninformed folks would stop choosing their ammunition based on the manufacturers posted energy/velocity figures - especially Double Tap

Taking what 147 Grain said a step further, best ammo choices for 9mm, .40 and .45 would include premium ammo like Federal HST, Winchester Ranger T, Remington Golden Saber and Bonded Saber, Speer Gold Dot, Hornady XTP/TAP and Corbon DPX. 147gr, 180gr and 230gr respectively
 
I, of course, disagree

I suggest a high-velocity 124g for the .355" bores (kinda like the 357 SIG cartridge was designed around).

In the 40 S&W I recommend high-speed 135g choices, or the R-P 155g conventional JHP (the one the USBP has had such good results with).

But in the 45 ACP, since real velocity escapes it, I suggest the 230g bullet of modern construction to be 'the Choice'.



Therre is no theory in my choices, just actual demonstrated-on-people choices.
 
My late father, a WWII combat veteran in Italy, once told me that a hit to the little finger with a .45 auto would knock a person down. So I always plan to shoot for the little finger.
 
Couple points -- I thought 180gr was right in the butter zone for .40s&w, when did that become "heavy for caliber"? To me, 200gr or 220gr would be heavy for the .40 caliber.

My late father, a WWII combat veteran in Italy, once told me that a hit to the little finger with a .45 auto would knock a person down. So I always plan to shoot for the little finger.
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Yeah, me too. But for different reasons. I read on the "Tacticool Mall Ninja Internet" that the .40s&w was such a powerful round that even a grazing hit on the pinky will turn the toughest, meanest, most crack addicted psycho BG into a huge cloud of pink. (Which is why they call it a "pinky" --duh:p) I still need more practice as just grazing pinkies is hard.


Enough with the silliness. Good point the OP made that hits to COM are good, but hits to the top of the sternum are better. Gotcha.
 
Couple points -- I thought 180gr was right in the butter zone for .40s&w, when did that become "heavy for caliber"? To me, 200gr or 220gr would be heavy for the .40 caliber.
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180 grain is the heaviest bullet weight commonly loaded in .40 S&W by the major manufacturers of self defense ammo.
 
It's no secret light bullets penetrate less than heavier ones. 180-gr. is generally correct for the 40 S&W.

Bullet design has improved so much that heavier projectiles now expand around the same diameter as their lighter counterparts and put more odds in your favor with much better penetration. When your life is on the line, a bullet can expand to eternity, but if it doesn't penetrate thoroughly through the vitals, you are likely dead!

Example: Shooting through a leather gloved hand or arm typically reduces the penetration of a HP by about 4" - 6" and we haven't even gotten into the longer odd angles, nor the fact that a BG can do a lot of damage with a nonlethal lightweight bullet in 'em until blood pressure drops enough for unconsciousness.
 
My late father, a WWII combat veteran in Italy, once told me that a hit to the little finger with a .45 auto would knock a person down.
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So help me, I'm not lying ..... my late father was also a WWll combat vet who saw action, and was wounded in Italy, and told me the same story. I guess an example of a WWll era urban myth. :)
 
It's no secret light bullets penetrate less than heavier ones. 180-gr. is generally correct for the 40 S&W.
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I agree that lighter bullets of the same design generally penetrate less. What is "correct" for any given caliber is lagely dependant on the desired results, and perhaps the preference(s) of the shooter.

Bullet design has improved so much that heavier projectiles now expand around the same diameter as their lighter counterparts and put more odds in your favor with much better penetration. When your life is on the line, a bullet can expand to eternity, but if it doesn't penetrate thoroughly through the vitals, you are likely dead!
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Some of them expand even MORE than their lighter counterparts. That said, you can talk penetration 'till doomsday; reality is, enough is all you need. I've had 155 grain .40 caliber bullets penetrate a coyote nearly lengthwise (shot head on, with the bullet exiting the side just in front of the hip, or through it), and twice had the same weight JHP bullets penetrate through both front shoulders of large javalinas, and exit with a strong ricochet off of the ground on the other side.

Example: Shooting through a leather gloved hand or arm typically reduces the penetration of a HP by about 4" - 6" and we haven't even gotten into the longer odd angles, nor the fact that a BG can do a lot of damage with a nonlethal lightweight bullet in 'em until blood pressure drops enough for unconsciousness.
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As opposed to, say, a nonlethal heavyweight bullet?

Don't get me wrong; the heavy-for-caliber bullets are good, and they have their purposes. There are cartridges and uses for which I find them very valuable. Even so, saying that they're "best" is subjective, and arguable.

I keep my G23 stoked with 155 gr Federal HST's, and I don't feel handicapped in the least in doing so. I'm convinced that applying one or more of these to the proper anatomy on any BG will be somewhat more than capable of stopping any threat they may present.

But a fella ought to carry what makes him feel comfortable. If the heavies do that for ya, then by all means, load 'em up!

Daryl
 
placement

A couple of well-placed bullets dead-center (or a tad to the right) between the armpits can be your best friend when your life is on the line.
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You mean shoot them in the heart.
Kinda common sense, isn't it?
Shot placement - like hunting.
 
Jimmie10mm, my father also showed me how you could push back the slide on an automatic to prevent it being fired and to grab the cylinder of a revolver to do the same. But I figure he was faster than I was.

He was captured in Italy, too, after about three months in the line and spent the next 12 months as a POW in a camp about 35 km from where I was station when I was in Germany. The first place he landed when he went overseas was Casablanca but he didn't get a chance to go to Rick's.
 
Somebody came up with the term "thorasic triangle" for the area marked out by the two nipples and the adam's apple. A hit in there has a pretty good chance of stopping somebody. But this changes based on the angle of the shot...shoot from the side and you want to get into the same place, but from the side - and that might mean "through the upper arm".
 
Somebody came up with the term "thorasic triangle" for the area marked out by the two nipples and the adam's apple. A hit in there has a pretty good chance of stopping somebody.
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A hit in the thoracic triangle is very likely to cause immediate or very quick incapacitation. Unfortunately, in combat you tend to shoot high. Aim for the thoracic triangle, and you're likely to send bullets whizzing over your opponent's head. :eek:

Bat Masterson said it best: If you would hit a man in the chest, aim for his groin. IMHO, a pelvic girdle hit, especially with a heavy bullet, will disrupt your opponent's attack just as fast if not faster than a thoracic triangle hit, although it may not incapacitate him or her as quickly. But if you're aiming for the groin, you're a lot more likely to hit your opponent.:cool:

But this changes based on the angle of the shot...shoot from the side and you want to get into the same place, but from the side - and that might mean "through the upper arm".
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Good point. However, you're a lot more likely to get your bullet, even a heavier bullet, into your opponent's vitals with a hit under the armpit. :eek:
 
I realize that 230 grain is typically the heaviest bullet used for the .45 ACP but does that make it "heavy for caliber?" To me, that's simply the standard weight although I also realize the first .45 ACP was a 200 grain load.

Supposedly Cooper preferred a truncated cone in, of course, the .45 because it had better penetrating capabilities. I think they may only be available from one manufacturer (but chances are, not so). However, would such a bullet actually be better at penetration, all other things being equal (weight and velocity, the only variables)?

While nobody disputes the .45 ACP (do they?), there seems to have been conflicting claims about the 147 grain 9mm, which is a new fangled thing.
 
Triangle Of Armpits to Throat

All one has to do is look at an anatomical chart of the human torso and examine the structural area of that region. It's rich with lots of major arterys. It would be hard to miss one.

But you have to get the bullet there first. Accuracy then penetration.
 
423px-Surface_projections_of_the_organs_of_the_trunk.png


This is a little more accurate than the t-shirt drawing.
 
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