Short Stroking AR, part deux

B

BlackJackID

New member
So I posted about a week ago that my AR short strokes with wolf/tula ammo, and some suggested changing to a carbine buffer, also it was suggested that my M-16 bolt carrier might be too heavy..Along with some other suggestions about gas key alignment and whatnot...

So I went to the gunshow looking for buffers and bolt carriers..not that I really WANT to shoot the russian stuff, but might be handy to have the option someday...Long story short, I found a very nice CAR15 for 600 bucks...Took care of both issues, regular AR bolt carrier and carbine buffer..

Took the new rifle to the range, ate up about 300 rounds of ammo, no problem...loaded some wolf...(drum roll please) and guess what...short stroke every single time...

My conclusion is that neither of my ARs like this stuff, because they arent dung eaters... So my stockpile of Tulammo will be loaded into the mini 14 mags as it loves the stuff..

Anyone else have this issue with the russian stuff?
 
I have a 14.5" midlength that short stroked on Tula constantly. I switched to brass case ammo for a couple hundred rounds, and now it will run Tula just fine.
 
Why?
Do you have any idea what the mechanics are/were for the Tula ammo working after running brass rounds?
Could your weapon/s be so new that they haven't 'worn in' (that sounds terrible, maybe smoothed would be better).
I have only shot my loads in my ARs but for reference would like to know. Very interesting.
Now I will think about this for days.

OSOK
 
Well, my ARs are both fairly new, so that could be the issue, but my rifle length one has had at least 500 rounds put down range, so I would think it would have broken in...Not sure..

like I said Im not real hot on using the steel stuff unless I HAVE to for whatever reason..just thought the whole thing was interesting
 
What brand of AR do you have ? the m16 BCG is not a problem .Try cleaning it good and run some XM193 through it ,and see how it runs.IMHO you do not use cheap steel case ammo in an Quality in spec AR. If you have a chrome lined chamber you will have better luck with steel cased ammo ,but I would still avoid it . You can get 1000 rounds of Fed XM193 55 grain nato ammo for under $400.00 landed .Or IMI 193 for $400.00 per 1200 landed. The Wolf and Tula are cheaper but they can be a bit sticky in a AR chamber .The old Laquer coated Wolf is the worst. also the will not be as fast or accurate as mil spec ammo . Also the russian junk is dirty and you need to clean the rifle and chamber a lot mor often .
 
A recent observation.Brother "A" left a s[pare 3 gun carbine here for when he comes back later,to avoid flying with it.Brother "B" was checking sights,and getting short stroke,with the 2nd round dragged fwd.His ammo was 69 gr for his 1 in 9 rifle.This carbine had the gas tube that curls around the bbl for some delay.It is a 1 iin 7 twist.I said"Try my 77 gr loads(24 gr Re-15) It ran fine.
Point:AR's have been made with 1 in 12 twists for 55 gr bullets,to 1 in 7 to handle 77 and heavier bullets.There are carbine,mid,and rifle gas port locations.Add to that,buffers and springs....

Now powder burn rates,pressure curves,port pressures...and steel vs brass,

There are a lot of variables to work with!!

To be at the mercy of what is at the gunshow,or on a dealers shelf,is problematic.

For myself,I get Lake City or WW brass,and my current bullet of choice is 77 Sierra MK with cannelure,and I use RE-15.

My rifle gets the same,good ammo every time.
 
My AR rifle is a colt M-16A1 parts build on a CMMG lower. Works flawless with American brass and my reloads

my CAR15 is an Olympic M.F.R. with a heavy barrel, again, flawless with brass...Neither one likes steel. Could be because they arent chrome lined.

Both are 1:9 twist non chromed


I dont plan on shooting the steel cased stuff, it just bothers me that they dont. Kind of dumb. I reload my own or use factory PMC for most plinking and range work.

I basically only want them to run on steel if the need ever arises.

My reloads are Winchester 55grain FMJ, on top of 23 grains of H322 with CCI primers. This is a great combo for both rifles
 
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Order a 1000 round case of Fedral xm193 for just in case ammo . With a non chrome lined barrel and chamber it will not extract quite as easy as a chrome lined chamber with steel cased ammo. that said most of the time it is a non issue. With a 1 in 9 your best results will be with 55 grain to 62 grain ,I have shot my 75 grain hand loads out of my Colt 6724 acurised rifle and it works good ,but that is a SS 24 inch barrel . You could try a chamber ream to see if you chamber is tight if it is not a chrome lined chamber . If it were me I would clean and lube it and shoot brass cased 5.56x45 nato spec ammo in the 55 to 62 grain range and never look back. Your rifle is probably fine ,and your problem is junk ammo .
 
Well yes...Both rifles are fine, and the problem IS junk ammo for sure. And All I ever fire is brass good stuff, 55 grain almost always.

I just think the Tula is underpowered, and wanted to know if anyone else short stroked with it..
 
So the consensus is under powered rounds sticking in non chromed chambers. I would go with one or the other and with the way this ammo is described, a combination of both, trash rounds. But what is the explanation for the weapon NOT eating the Tula, then after a couple a hundred rounds, eating it? Smoothed the chamber or maybe a little left over solvent or lub?
I don't like AKs, not because of the weapon but that the design was used to shoot at me and mine, its a personal thing. With the same view, I don't have any desire to use Wolf or Tula. So, I won't worry with this as a potential problem.

OSOK
 
I have four AR's. Their barrels range from non-CL to SS wylde chambered. They all run 100% with brass case ammo (e.g. PMC, AE and IMI). Three of my AR's run well with WPA, one (16" middy w/ wylde chamber) short strokes one or two times/mag with it. The only Russian steel case ammo that runs 100% in all four rifles is Brown Bear 55gr FMJBT. In all honesty, with $0.265/round IMI M193 at Widners, I find it hard to shoot $0.20/round Russian steel case ammo. IMI shoots 2 moa vs Brown Bear 3.5-4 moa. Another plus is that if you are stockpiling ammo, IMI consistently frags vs russian FMJ.
 
I found that a heavier buffer took care of the exact problem you're having. Spikes Tactical makes a really nice one. If you pay close attention while firing your AR you'll notice that "crap" ammo actually sounds different. You can tell it's not blowing the BCG back very hard.

An object in motion tends to stay in motion. The heavier buffer will compress the spring a little more, thus allowing the BCG to come back a little more because once it's started rearward the heavier weight will keep it going rearward... FWIW.
 
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In my case, I believe that my problems were due to a new rifle ( BCM) that was a little tighter than my other ARs. It just needed some run time to loosen up. My Bushmaster and Del-Ton ate it like candy. Tula is crap ammo. Unfortunately I bought a bunch of it cheap. Hell, it even short strokes in my AK.
 
>My conclusion is that neither of my ARs like this stuff, because they arent dung eaters... So my stockpile of Tulammo will be loaded into the mini 14 mags as it loves the stuff..

>Anyone else have this issue with the russian stuff?

I've run about 100 rounds of 223 Russ. Brown Bear ammo through my DPMS AR with no issues.
 
Loose chambers and or slightly over gased AR's willl eat junk steel cased under powered ammo better . If accuracy,velocity,100% function and consistancy are important in an in spec AR use good ammo . The AR was not designed for Junk steel cased ammo . With the price deals on real 193 ,stock up and stack it high and deep .;)
 
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