SHORT OAL die tips?

R

robhic

New member
I wanted to load up some mild .380 loads for my 14 y.o. granddude. He likes the low recoil of my BERSA pistol. So I selected the data from my books and using 2.2gr W231 (for most accurate load...) I setup everything. COAL was .900" and to get that short, I needed to remove the lock nut on my seating die's plug. :(

I didn't really like this and it made me check OAL a whole lot more than normally to make sure it hadn't varied a lot not being able to lock it down. I'm using an RCBS single stage Rock Chucker and RCBS carbide dies.

For rounds being this short, does anyone have any tips to get that size without taking the lock nut off? By the instructions I reset the .380 die set to make sure I had all set properly. I did but that sure was short. I've made .380 before using 100, 90, 95gr bullets. Today I used Mag-Tech FMJ (hollow base) 95gr bullets (I've used before) but this run seemed more problematic than earlierones.

Any tips/information appreciated!
 
Did you set up the seating die by screwing it down until it just touched the case mouth then backing off an 1/8 turn? If so, and you didn't have enough of the stem sticking out for the lock nut, your seating stem is too short. Call RCBS.
 
"Did you set up the seating die by screwing it down until it just touched the case mouth then backing off an 1/8 turn? If so, and you didn't have enough of the stem sticking out for the lock nut, your seating stem is too short. Call RCBS."
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Yes, I took the instruction sheet and point-by-point I reset all my dies/settings. All were OK but I wanted to make sure. Thing is, I've loaded .380 before. Even used these same Mag-Tech 95gr JRN bullets. I need to read further in my logs to see what specs I used before.

I think I will contact RCBS and see what they say. I did before about a flat seating stem. They told me $25 :eek:....
 
You're on the right track. They make both long and short seater ram stems and may be able to give you a longer one that is stock.
 
You're on the right track. They make both long and short seater ram stems and may be able to give you a longer one that is stock.
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I've heard good things about RCBS' customer service. Maybe this could end up being one of them... :D

I think I might look at the stem from my 9mm die. I wonder if it's longer? Since the 9 and the 380 are so close, if the 9mm stem is longer I don't see why that wouldn't work. Thread pattern should match as well as the cupped end for RN bullets. Just a thought and a little investigation for today.
 
Why do you want to load 'em that short? SAAMI minimum OAL is .910". And 2.2 of 231 is under minimum. Not by much though.
Loading short isn't going to reduce felt recoil(that a 14 year old probably doesn't notice anyway. Used to run a CF Army Cadet Corps. ) and can lead to all kinds of feeding issues.
"...Since the 9 and the 380 are so close..." Only in bullet diameter.
 
Why do you want to load 'em that short? SAAMI minimum OAL is .910". And 2.2 of 231 is under minimum. Not by much though.
Loading short isn't going to reduce felt recoil(that a 14 year old probably doesn't notice anyway. Used to run a CF Army Cadet Corps. ) and can lead to all kinds of feeding issues. "...Since the 9 and the 380 are so close..." Only in bullet diameter.
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Point by point: 1) .900 was the OAL listed in the Lyman manual for the 95gr JRN bullet I used.

2) Actually, the min was 2.1gr of W231 and I added .1gr because most loads I've done are a bit anemic using the lowest load suggestion from Lyman.

3) Unfortunately, my 14 y.o. is recoil-sensitive. (I need to work on him... :D)

4) I meant the dies should be pretty close, length-wise. I took the dies apart and they are the same length. Oh well, at least now I know.

Thanks for the SAMMI OAL info. I didn't know that (and neither does Lyman according to their manual!).
 
Robert you are indeed using the listed length from the manual.
I believe it is suspect because the over all length for the 90 grain bullet above it is listed at .925 while the 95 grain bullet calls for .900 and the longer bullet should seat longer especially when the charges for 231 powder are the same. Using a heavier bullet more deeply seated will raise the pressures. I would put in a call or email to Lyman or Sierra to find out for sure. It does look like a misprint.
 
I believe it is suspect because the over all length for the 90 grain bullet above it is listed at .925 while the 95 grain bullet calls for .900 and the longer bullet should seat longer especially when the charges for 231 powder are the same. Using a heavier bullet more deeply seated will raise the pressures. I would put in a call or email to Lyman or Sierra to find out for sure. It does look like a misprint.
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Interesting, thanks for checking. I believe I have the Sierra info around here somewhere. I'm gonna look for it. Maybe I'll see how lucky I can be with an inertia hammer (easy so as not to remove everything) and then reset the OAL and re-seat at a longer OAL - .925 sounds good. Thanks again.
 
OK, in regard to my "too short seater stem" issue for making .380acp bullets. I called RCBS and the gal in the customer service dept. told me all the stems are the same and a custom stem (alone) was $25 (!!!) so I declined that. She said only other option was to lower the entire die in the press.

Seeing as I make few .380 rounds and only paid $50 for the entire carbide die set, I don't think I'm gonna pop $25 for ONE seater stem. So, wouldn't screwing the die-body down more so I don't have to remove the seater locknut make the crimp too long? Or make other bad ju-ju happen? I've got the die(s) set precisely according to factory instrutions and previous .380 rounds were OK.

Should I lower the seater/crimp die just to make the stem work better :eek:?
Thanks.
 
.900 was the OAL listed in the Lyman manual for the 95gr JRN bullet I used.
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#1) What manual was that?? My old Lyman manual only lists a max COAL and its 0.984".

#2) ok, its a listed length in a manual, but why do you NEED to load them that short??

I understand your problem with the seater stem length, but I don't understand why you need to load rounds that short.

I've loaded .380 before. Even used these same Mag-Tech 95gr JRN bullets.
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You didn't load them that short before? (apparently not, or the seating stem length would have been an issue then..??)

Call the maker (Mag-Tech) and see what they say is the proper seating depth for that bullet.

Personally, I see no reason to load to a SAAMI minimum COAL (or below) unless its the only way the rounds will fit in your gun (and that's NOT the case here, is it??)
 
Robhic,

No, don't turn the die body past the right degree of crimp or you will bulge and mess up your cases. Besides, you are almost certainly using the wrong seating depth.

Look more closely at your Lyman manual. That 0.900" COL is for a Truncated Cone FMJ, not a Round Nose FMJ (aka JRN). It's the shorter, flatter shape of the TC design that requires deeper seating. You don't need to do that with the JRN.

Take 44 Amp's suggestion to cal Mag Tech and ask for a recommended COL, as some round nose bullets have an elliptical ogive profile which is a little longer than those which have profiles more like a hemisphere capping the end of a frustrum. Depending on their exact shape, it might not be the full 0.980", but I bet it will be closer to it.

Regarding the seater stem, apparently the different lengths are for rifle-only. I have made my own on my lathe, but can't really recommend buying a lathe unless you have other work for it, as it will cost a tad more than the RCBS offer.
 
#1) What manual was that?? My old Lyman manual only lists a max COAL and its 0.984".

#2) ok, its a listed length in a manual, but why do you NEED to load them that short??
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No, don't turn the die body past the right degree of crimp or you will bulge and mess up your cases. Besides, you are almost certainly using the wrong seating depth.
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Uncle Nick and 44AMP - I stand corrected. I must have gotten that .900" OAL from a "load book" (going on memory here). I checked my 49th edition Lyman manual and didn't see ANY data for a 100gr FMJ bullet.

I DID see a penciled-in note for 100gr FMJ @ .980" and 3 powder selections so I musta gotten that info from the Hodgdon website (my favorite) and wrote it down.

I modified the bullets out to .980" after this discussion, so all is well.

Thanks for all the info!
 
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