Short assault rifles

O

Ossi

New member
Many manufacturers have made short carbine models of their assault rifles, with 10 inch barrel or less, for example Colt Commando, SIG SG552, Hecler&Koch HK53 and G36C in 5.56x45, and Russian AKS-74U in 5.45x39. These guns have considerably shorter barrels than US GI M4 and therefore lower muzzle velocities, that according to some (saw an article in Firearmstactical) means a big drop in effectiveness.

Anyone who knows more about effectiveness of these short carbines? At least according to info given by manufacturers they are much more effective than 9mm SMGs, and if no-one was buying short barrelled carbines manufacturers would probaly not make them. Effectiveness of the rifle caliber ammo (.223) from very short barrels? Usefulness as military/police weapons? Organizations that use any of these guns? All info wellcome.

To moderators, please don't move this to another forum with very few posters. These are rifles anyway.

Ossi
 
They're not really designed to kill (thought the right shot will) but for entry teams clearing rooms or any other situation where a small rifle is a must but a pistol isn't enough.
 
To moderators, please don't move this to another forum with very few posters. These are rifles anyway.
Click to expand...

Well, when I initially say this I thought "what is this doing in The Art of the Rifle, it should be in the Short Assault Rifle Forum."

Then I remembered TFL doesn't have that Forum so I was going to move it to the Assault Rifle Forum... but again TFL doesn't have one of those. :(

So I then tried to move it The Art of The Rifle Forum but couldn't cause it was already here. :o

Ya know what they say "No matter where you go, There you are!" :D
 
IIRC, 5.56mm SS109 from a 10" barrel will stay above 2700fps (maximum lethality from fragmentation at 2700fps+) out to about 35 m, M193 out to about 50m.

I think the major attraction of these short rifles is logistical, they provide a compact weapon to those that need one, yet share the same ammo and many of the parts of their full-sized counterparts.
 
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A lot of these SBAR's are "carbine" models designed for use by armor crews etc. as a Secondary, defensive weapon. Loss of velocity is a no brainer but you have to imagine if your tank crew is running around with out thier tank someone has ruined their day already.

Anyway you can expect 10-20% loss of muzzle velocity, depending on the cartridge. Even the venerable 44 magnum gets nearly 20% more velocity out of a 20 inch long rifle barrel over an 8 inch tube. That means a 44 mag hand gun hits with 555 ft pounds at 100 yards, whereas the rifle hits with 1015 ft pounds. Thats about half as effective. In a lighter wieght cartridge these numbers will be more diverse.

That means your 10 inch XM177, or AK74SU has a LOT less power at say 100 meters than its rifle sized cousin shooting the same ammunition. Even the M4 doesn't have a 20 inch "rifle" barrel and loses velocity. This could be the cause of the so called 'failure to stop' shots fired by US Army Delta Operators in Somalia shooting ss109 out of M-4 carbines. These shorter specialty "defensive" assault rifles like the hk 53, would have even worse results at long range.

But lets face it, WOULD you shoot a 10 inch barreled rifle at a 100 meter target? If you had to, sure. But your 10 inch barreled rifle is designed for "room clearing", back scratching and close in fighting, not for long range lethality.
 
I think that if I was gonna go to a 10" barrel, I'd move to a long barreled handgun.
 
I wouldnt mind a longer barreled handgun either... if it had a shoulder stock too!
A stock aids in stability and strength to your firing platform. If you had to dish out some firepower - that handgun would be less than ideal. Now, with a good stock you can dish it out with the rest of them...


Never pass up the chance to butt-stroke a bad guy.
Hey, can you put a bayonet on a Krinkov? :D
 
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