Shooting observations SA and DA

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Evil Monkey

New member
I shoot heavy double action triggers better than lighter single actions. The heck is going on?:eek:

I find that the break point of a single action pull causes me to tighten my hands, and causes me to apply too much pressure to "break" the trigger.

The double action pull surprises me every time and allows for hits on target.

The difference in pull weights on my striker fired SA/DA taurus OSS is about 4lb for SA and 8lb for DA.

I don't think the weight of the trigger has any bearing on a persons accuracy potential. I think it's the "break point" that is the biggest issue, at least with me.
 
When I was competing, I found better scores and got more trophy collection with a K38 S&W 6 inch revolver. I feel your pain:D
 
Evil Monkey, I'm in the same boat! Most of my pistols have been DA/SA or true, revolver-style DAO, and I've always shot them very well.

I think it is a matter of being more focused and in tune with the pistol and the trigger to ensure an accurate shot. E.G.- For practical purposes we'll say both of my two newest CZ's have a 10# DA, and a 5# SA. These are my current two best 24-shot targets, 12 rounds each SA (Red) and then DA (Green, and from half-cock) at 7, 10, 15, and 20 yards. Things that make ya go hmmm......

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get this, I shoot my M&P40's SA trigger just fine. But as soon as I get on that Taurus with the SA pull, I start jerking the pistol and missing shots. :confused:

The worst results is when I stage the trigger of the Taaurus in SA right to the break point, and then squeeze. Even in dry firing, I find that I "dip" the pistol as if I'm flinching.

Maybe it's because of that big, monster 45acp it's chambered in. :D
 
It's not uncommon. I don't think I can say that I shoot DA 'better' than SA, but if I shoot a full mag in only DA with say my P226 or P229, the grouping is just as good as if I were shooting it in SA.

I think the reason for this is that the tension helps to stabilize the gun in the hand.
 
With a good double action revolver you can kind of get in a groove cycling the cylinder around.
 
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A very light, short trigger can hide trigger technique problems, but it does need to be very light and very short to accomplish that task.

I have a pistol that I used for dryfire practice because it has a long, heavy DA pull. It also has a decocking safety that basically disconnects the trigger. In that mode, the trigger moves through the same arc it would normally travel but there's very little resistance.

One day, on a whim, I tried "dryfiring" with the trigger "disconnected". To my surprise, I found that even with the trigger "disconnected", creating a long but very light pull, I was inducing a considerable amount of movement on the pistol during the trigger pull. I had assumed that the reason I was having difficulty keeping the gun steady during dryfiring was the weight of the trigger. It turned out that the biggest problem was my technique. When I got my technique worked out, the heavy pull turned out to be a relatively minor issue to deal with.

All that to say, the weight of the trigger (within reason) won't prevent the gun from being shot accurately as long as the shooter has good trigger technique.

An SA trigger can make it easier to anticipate the shot which usually results in some level of flinching. A lot of folks assume that this is recoil/blast related, but I have found that I can begin anticipating the shot with some of my air pistols even though they have essentially no recoil, very little discharge noise and relatively nice triggers.

If you are having issues with anticipating the shot, working with a DA trigger, focusing on pulling the trigger smoothly and continuously as it moves through its travel can help with that. Staging the trigger, in my experience, usually leads to problems in the long run.
 
Thanks Agent109! Practice, practice, practice. And I need more because I know that I can shoot better than that.

JohnKSa, excellent points! You wouldn't happen to be talking about a P99 AS would you?

Evil Monkey said:
get this, I shoot my M&P40's SA trigger just fine. But as soon as I get on that Taurus with the SA pull, I start jerking the pistol and missing shots. :confused:
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IDK if yours is the same, but both the 24/7 G2 and Millennium G2 PT-111 I briefly owned had a much smoother and cleaner breaking DA than SA. Then again, the Taurus trigger isn't (wasn't) my favorite!

Also, you're not trying to stage every shot are you? That can definitely make things a little shaky.
Maybe it's because of that big, monster 45acp it's chambered in. :D
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Hahaha! What was the old saying, ".45 kicks like a mule"?

Maybe I am in the minority no, I know that I am lol, but I simply prefer a trigger that has resistance through a longer length of pull such as a true revolver-style/hammer-fired DAO. 1st one I ever owned & carried was a Beretta 96D Centurion back in '94, followed by a DAO Ruger Tank, er, P95.
[emoji38]

Like y'all have already said, it's not the weight, but technique. In my case I think it's just a matter of carrying & firing DAO's for years and, preferring to have a longer trigger pull that I must focus on more to ensure a steady, straight back squeeze and accurate shot placement.
 
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You wouldn't happen to be talking about a P99 AS would you?
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It's actually a Ruger P95. I've owned a number of P95 pistols and the DA trigger on a Ruger P95 is never what I would call great, but for some reason this particular gun has an especially stiff DA trigger--about 5lbs heavier than normal. I find that it's perfect for dry-fire practice.
 
I think I know what I want in a handgun now.

A Glock with a heavy trigger spring, but the lightest connector possible.

Is there such a thing that can be done on an M&P40?
 
A Glock with a heavy trigger spring, but the lightest connector possible.
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A fairly common Glock setup is an NY1 trigger spring with a "-" connector. The "-" connector would normally provide a trigger pull in the 4-5lb range with a light takeup pull weight when used with the normal coil spring. When used with the NY1 spring, the resulting trigger pull is 5-6lbs (about the same as a standard connector with the normal coil spring) but with a pretty consistent pull weight all the way from start to stop instead of the normal light takeup.
 
JohnKSa said:
It's actually a Ruger P95. I've owned a number of P95 pistols and the DA trigger on a Ruger P95 is never what I would call great, but for some reason this particular gun has an especially stiff DA trigger--about 5lbs heavier than normal. I find that it's perfect for dry-fire practice.
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So your P95 is temperamental? Lol

I have owned three separate tanks, er, P95's over the last 20 years, and don't remember their trigger pull being terrible, but DA definitely not as good as Beretta, especially not comparing their respective DAO models.

I am with you on the thought process on practicing with the heaviest pull available. It would be accurate for me to say that close to 90-95% of my daily dry fire is DA (right now my CZ's are rotating for EDC). The P-07's Omega Trigger is rolling along the same as it's 1st day, but my P-01 is definitely showing a great bit of difference from when I got it; soooooooo much smoother, and I can only imagine how it, heck, how both would feel with a little bit of Cajun Gun Works magic!

We will see how things go over the next few weeks once I pick up my Beretta Cougar 8000D. I've got a feeling there's going to be stiff competition and a possible shakeup between my top 3 pistols, especially if it is as accurate as my last DAO Beretta...
 
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Evil Monkey said:
I think I know what I want in a handgun now.

A Glock with a heavy trigger spring, but the lightest connector possible.
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[emoji106] Please keep us posted if that gives you the desired effect Evil Monkey. IDK what had been done to it, but the best Glock trigger I have ever personally messed with was noticeably heavier than stock and the dealer said nobody wanted it. Would love to have taken it out to the range.
 
I think I know what I want in a handgun now.

A Glock with a heavy trigger spring, but the lightest connector possible.
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You want the NY1 spring and the 3.5 connector. It's quite popular with many people. I don't care for it myself but it should do what you're looking for.
 
So your P95 is temperamental? Lol

I have owned three separate tanks, er, P95's over the last 20 years, and don't remember their trigger pull being terrible, but DA definitely not as good as Beretta, especially not comparing their respective DAO models.
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It's a puzzler. The DA pull is between 15 & 16lbs--the others I've had usually run between 10 & 11lbs. The only thing I can figure is that Ruger went to a much heavier hammer spring at some point. This one is definitely later production than the others.

I started using this gun in DA for dryfire practice a few years ago and it has definitely improved my shooting a lot. I've begun to appreciate Jerry Miculek's statement that trigger control is much more important than sight alignment. His rationale is that the best sight alignment in the world means nothing if your trigger pull yanks the sights off target before the gun fires.
 
I think I can shoot DA just about as accurately as SA, but can't get hits very quickly while shooting DA.
The long pull requires more/longer concentration, so I feel like I'm staying on the sights and trigger, while I sometimes have a "fire and forget" sense about SA shots (lack of "follow through"?).
The long DA pull (usually) throws off my timing, and I never feel like I have the same control when trying to hit a moving or fleeting target, as with SA.
 
I tend to shoot tighter groups with my DA guns, when shot DAO. Once you have the technique down, its fast, natural, and done without thought.

Other than my SA revolvers, I havent thumb cocked a hammer to shoot since the 80's.
 
AK103K said:
I tend to shoot tighter groups with my DA guns, when shot DAO. Once you have the technique down, its fast, natural, and done without thought.
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Exactly! To continue that train of thought AK, I don't worry so much about having the quickest, shortest reset in the world for follow up shots.
 
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