Shooting impressions of USP 9 & Glock 17
- Thread starter Kermit
- Start date
I have a Glock 17. Upsides? Reliable. Standard capacity mags available, if not cheap. Trigger is always the same. Downsides? I hate the Glock trigger. I'm just not accurate with it. Calm down glockaholics, I'm not saying the Glock isn't accurate, just that I'm not accurate with it. Feels like a brick in my hands.
I don't have a USP 9. I do have a USPc in .40 and one in .45. Upsides? I like the option to carry condition 1 with a USP variant 1. They've been reliable and accurate for me. The safety works the way G*d and John Browning intended. The SA trigger is ok. Better than a Glock, but certainly not a 1911 trigger. Downsides? The DA trigger sucks bigtime, but since I wouldn't carry it condition 2, that's not a big issue for me (might be for you). I don't like the mag release, because it's different than what I shoot most of the time -- it might not be an issue for you if you mostly shoot and carry the USP. The safety isn't as positive as a 1911 safety. The USP slide is overly wide and large, IMHO. Put the Glock 17 and the USP side to side and look at them from the back. You'll see what I mean.
Both are fine guns and I'd feel adequately armed with either of them. If I had to choose between them, I'd probably take the USP. But I'd prefer something else, given my druthers (and I'll let you guess what that something else might be
).
M1911
I don't have a USP 9. I do have a USPc in .40 and one in .45. Upsides? I like the option to carry condition 1 with a USP variant 1. They've been reliable and accurate for me. The safety works the way G*d and John Browning intended. The SA trigger is ok. Better than a Glock, but certainly not a 1911 trigger. Downsides? The DA trigger sucks bigtime, but since I wouldn't carry it condition 2, that's not a big issue for me (might be for you). I don't like the mag release, because it's different than what I shoot most of the time -- it might not be an issue for you if you mostly shoot and carry the USP. The safety isn't as positive as a 1911 safety. The USP slide is overly wide and large, IMHO. Put the Glock 17 and the USP side to side and look at them from the back. You'll see what I mean.
Both are fine guns and I'd feel adequately armed with either of them. If I had to choose between them, I'd probably take the USP. But I'd prefer something else, given my druthers (and I'll let you guess what that something else might be
). M1911
hksigwalther
New member
Since you already have a Glock, you know of the feel of the trigger. Having had mostly standard DA/SA semis, the trigger on my G34 was unusual at first. Not difficult to get use to but unusual for me. The gun have worked fine and is quite accurate for me. Don't hate it but it is, however, not the top of my list in terms of overall feel and handling.
The USP9 is just as reliable. The molded-in checkering is a bit coarse, similar to a rasp, but that is the only serious drawback I have with it. Although the gun is accurate off a rest, I can't seem to shoot it as accurately as my P226 and G34 off-hand. I do prefer the SA/DA trigger over the Glock trigger, but that's just me. The HK is also a bit less squarish on the grip.
The USP9 is just as reliable. The molded-in checkering is a bit coarse, similar to a rasp, but that is the only serious drawback I have with it. Although the gun is accurate off a rest, I can't seem to shoot it as accurately as my P226 and G34 off-hand. I do prefer the SA/DA trigger over the Glock trigger, but that's just me. The HK is also a bit less squarish on the grip.
I like the Glock and love the USP.
USPs are not difficult to detail strip, provided that you put it back together in the right order.
I bought the video from a place, can't remember the name... arizonaresponsesystems.com? that shows how to detail strip it. Also shows the Benelli M1 Soopa 90, P7M8, part of the MP-5SD and the SL8 I believe. Anyhow, the vid will show you how to do it or you can look for online directions at hkpro.com.
As was mentioned, if you already have the Glock, you might want to keep the same manual of arms. I have both a Glock and HK and prefer the HK (USP, rather... haven't had a P7 yet) in several ways but that's just personal preference. Glocks are certainly awesome guns and probably my second favorite platform. Love that HK magazine release!
USPs are not difficult to detail strip, provided that you put it back together in the right order.
I bought the video from a place, can't remember the name... arizonaresponsesystems.com? that shows how to detail strip it. Also shows the Benelli M1 Soopa 90, P7M8, part of the MP-5SD and the SL8 I believe. Anyhow, the vid will show you how to do it or you can look for online directions at hkpro.com.
As was mentioned, if you already have the Glock, you might want to keep the same manual of arms. I have both a Glock and HK and prefer the HK (USP, rather... haven't had a P7 yet) in several ways but that's just personal preference. Glocks are certainly awesome guns and probably my second favorite platform. Love that HK magazine release!
Have both. Here's my long comparison.
Caveat: Have been shooting Glocks for 12 years, USPs for 1.
RE: Trigger
My USP9 is V9 (safety only.) When I got the USP it was V1 but I never intended to use the DA mode because the DA pull really sucks compared to a Sig for example. But even using SA only I also had a couple problems with the V1 trigger mechanism hanging up due to partial decocking while riding the safety. After getting the V9 control plate, I installed it in about 2 minutes. Some people think the ability to switch control modes is a big deal, but once you find the mode that works best for you, you're done with that "feature." The way HK pushes this feature they make it sound like everybody changes firing modes as often as they change their underwear.
I also have a USP45F with the $100 "Match" trigger and while smoother in DA mode I don't think it really makes that much difference. I can recommend a $5 10-lb (reduced power) Wolff hammer spring though. Makes a big difference.
Going from cocked-n-locked, each shot from the USP9 is more precise (for me) due to the light SA pull. However the trigger reset is longer and it's harder for me to shoot the USP fast.
Re: Accuracy
In addition to the SA trigger, it's my impression that the USP just groups a lot tighter. My bullseye targets are always at 25 yds and it's much easier to keep the rounds in the black with the USP (standing, unsupported.)
RE: Magazines
The USP9 magazines drop free every time. If your USP9 mags don't drop, it's probably because somebody bent the hammer strut trying to force open the gun when the built-in lock was enabled. A bent strut rubs on the magazines, a straight one does not. My USP9 had this problem (no it was not me who bent it) and I got a replacement hammer strut for $5.
I've always found fully-loaded Glock mags to be difficult to insert with the slide forward. They always have to be slammed home. USPs don't have this problem.
I have no problem using the HK mag release, it requires less grip shifting than the Glock release. The release can occasionally pinch the finger below the trigger guard.
RE: Feeding
I haven't had any feeding problems with either the Glock or the USP9. I've shot everything up to +P+ and NATO rounds, and they both work great.
RE: Maintenance
Here's the big difference in my book. I can take down a Glock with just a 3/32" punch, get any part I need from a variety of sources on the 'net for cheap, install it myself and it will work just fine.
RE: Accessories
Glock is much better-supported here. But neither gun needs much in the way of accessorizing. You can get just about any holster made for both guns, with or without the relevant tactical lights (M3 for Glock, UTL for HK)
RE: Durability
If there was ever a 9 that could theoretically outlast the Glock I think it might be the HK. Not that anyone could actually do it... but everything about the HK seems over-engineered for the 9mm.
I did manage to get part of my HK to rust. The little pin securing the hammer spring/strut on the side where it contacts my skin. I sprayed some CLP on it and wiped off the rust.
Some have claimed they got their Glocks to rust, but I have a hard time with that one unless they sanded the slide down deep enough to get below the Tenifer.
I haven't heard any credible reports of anybody kB'ing either the G17 or the USP9.
RE: Ergonomics
I find the USP9 to fit my hand better. YMMV
I've been trying to shoot isoscoles and am finding that my right thumb wants to rest right on the Glock slide stop, which is not good. However the same thumb rides on the USP safety, so I don't have the failure-to-lock problem.
The USP slide stop is much easier to use as a slide release because it's massive.
RE: Capacity
I assume you'll be using pre-ban mags because these guns are really a bit big for 10-round guns.
Keep in mind that the G17 holds at least two more rounds, and +2 extenders are easily available.
RE: Overall
Overall I find much about the USP9 to be more refined than the Glock, specifically the trigger and the magazines. This refinement helps me on the 25yd bullseye range but when the goal is A-zone accuracy combined with blazing speed, the Glock works better for me, primarily due to the low bore axis and shorter trigger reset.
Caveat: Have been shooting Glocks for 12 years, USPs for 1.
RE: Trigger
My USP9 is V9 (safety only.) When I got the USP it was V1 but I never intended to use the DA mode because the DA pull really sucks compared to a Sig for example. But even using SA only I also had a couple problems with the V1 trigger mechanism hanging up due to partial decocking while riding the safety. After getting the V9 control plate, I installed it in about 2 minutes. Some people think the ability to switch control modes is a big deal, but once you find the mode that works best for you, you're done with that "feature." The way HK pushes this feature they make it sound like everybody changes firing modes as often as they change their underwear.
I also have a USP45F with the $100 "Match" trigger and while smoother in DA mode I don't think it really makes that much difference. I can recommend a $5 10-lb (reduced power) Wolff hammer spring though. Makes a big difference.
Going from cocked-n-locked, each shot from the USP9 is more precise (for me) due to the light SA pull. However the trigger reset is longer and it's harder for me to shoot the USP fast.
Re: Accuracy
In addition to the SA trigger, it's my impression that the USP just groups a lot tighter. My bullseye targets are always at 25 yds and it's much easier to keep the rounds in the black with the USP (standing, unsupported.)
RE: Magazines
The USP9 magazines drop free every time. If your USP9 mags don't drop, it's probably because somebody bent the hammer strut trying to force open the gun when the built-in lock was enabled. A bent strut rubs on the magazines, a straight one does not. My USP9 had this problem (no it was not me who bent it) and I got a replacement hammer strut for $5.
I've always found fully-loaded Glock mags to be difficult to insert with the slide forward. They always have to be slammed home. USPs don't have this problem.
I have no problem using the HK mag release, it requires less grip shifting than the Glock release. The release can occasionally pinch the finger below the trigger guard.
RE: Feeding
I haven't had any feeding problems with either the Glock or the USP9. I've shot everything up to +P+ and NATO rounds, and they both work great.
RE: Maintenance
Here's the big difference in my book. I can take down a Glock with just a 3/32" punch, get any part I need from a variety of sources on the 'net for cheap, install it myself and it will work just fine.
RE: Accessories
Glock is much better-supported here. But neither gun needs much in the way of accessorizing. You can get just about any holster made for both guns, with or without the relevant tactical lights (M3 for Glock, UTL for HK)
RE: Durability
If there was ever a 9 that could theoretically outlast the Glock I think it might be the HK. Not that anyone could actually do it... but everything about the HK seems over-engineered for the 9mm.
I did manage to get part of my HK to rust. The little pin securing the hammer spring/strut on the side where it contacts my skin. I sprayed some CLP on it and wiped off the rust.
Some have claimed they got their Glocks to rust, but I have a hard time with that one unless they sanded the slide down deep enough to get below the Tenifer.
I haven't heard any credible reports of anybody kB'ing either the G17 or the USP9.
RE: Ergonomics
I find the USP9 to fit my hand better. YMMV
I've been trying to shoot isoscoles and am finding that my right thumb wants to rest right on the Glock slide stop, which is not good. However the same thumb rides on the USP safety, so I don't have the failure-to-lock problem.
The USP slide stop is much easier to use as a slide release because it's massive.
RE: Capacity
I assume you'll be using pre-ban mags because these guns are really a bit big for 10-round guns.
Keep in mind that the G17 holds at least two more rounds, and +2 extenders are easily available.
RE: Overall
Overall I find much about the USP9 to be more refined than the Glock, specifically the trigger and the magazines. This refinement helps me on the 25yd bullseye range but when the goal is A-zone accuracy combined with blazing speed, the Glock works better for me, primarily due to the low bore axis and shorter trigger reset.
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I've got both and would rate them pretty much equal. I'll give you the rundown, but remember when I say, for example, that the USP is more accurate, it's a small difference--pretty much that's the story of these two guns. Lots of small differences.
USP has a lighter single action trigger and a smooth double action. It seems more accurate to me. My wife, who is very recoil sensitive says that it recoils less than my G17. I can't tell the difference. The gun points low compared to my G17. I have trouble finding the front sight for quick work because of that. (Just what I'm used to.) Lisa also likes the USP because she can work the slide--she can't on any of my other 9mms. I think the compound spring must make it a little easier to get the slide moving.
The two guns are almost identical dimensionally with the USP being a tiny bit wider due to the slide release & control lever. The USP tends to sit higher in the hand.
I've shot my Glock more, but in spite of that, the USP seems to have more wear. My overall impression is that it's not going to hold up as well as the Glock will.
Hi-cap mags for the USP are hard to find and expensive if you can find them. Before the ban, I didn't feel bad if I could get them for $45 new.
USP has a lighter single action trigger and a smooth double action. It seems more accurate to me. My wife, who is very recoil sensitive says that it recoils less than my G17. I can't tell the difference. The gun points low compared to my G17. I have trouble finding the front sight for quick work because of that. (Just what I'm used to.) Lisa also likes the USP because she can work the slide--she can't on any of my other 9mms. I think the compound spring must make it a little easier to get the slide moving.
The two guns are almost identical dimensionally with the USP being a tiny bit wider due to the slide release & control lever. The USP tends to sit higher in the hand.
I've shot my Glock more, but in spite of that, the USP seems to have more wear. My overall impression is that it's not going to hold up as well as the Glock will.
Hi-cap mags for the USP are hard to find and expensive if you can find them. Before the ban, I didn't feel bad if I could get them for $45 new.
I've got the Glock 17 and Glock 19. I held a USP 9 for a friend for a few months.
To put it bluntly, if looking for a range gun, and I had tried the H&K first, I would have bought the H&K rather than the glock.
I like my glocks with 3 pound connector and night sites, but the stock 17 does not compare to the stock H&K for shootability and accuracy. Several shooters who tried both the guns with me prefered the H&K. If I can come up with the dollars I'll be buying a H&K myself.
Radagast.
To put it bluntly, if looking for a range gun, and I had tried the H&K first, I would have bought the H&K rather than the glock.
I like my glocks with 3 pound connector and night sites, but the stock 17 does not compare to the stock H&K for shootability and accuracy. Several shooters who tried both the guns with me prefered the H&K. If I can come up with the dollars I'll be buying a H&K myself.
Radagast.
I own a usp9 and fired a rental glock17 last week, so I'll approach this from the opposite angle.
The Glock is much lighter and slightly smaller. Even so, I thought it had less recoil. Guess the grip angle put more of the recoil into my palm instead of the web of my hand. This also made it point more naturally for me. The trigger pull felt rubbery but smooth in the 17, whereas the usp feels like 'sproingy' hard plastic with lots of stacking(?). The Glock's trigger felt heavier as well but that could be the longer DA plus that lever on top of the trigger, compared to the usp SA pull. I never practice the DA pull on the usp because it's too heavy for me to shoot accurately. I prefer the sights on the usp because I can see target around the front sight. Racking the slide on the usp sounds like loose metal plates slapping against each other - very militaristic and very cool! My shooting results were similar between the two, which is not very good , so I cant comment on accuracy. For over 2400 rounds my usp has never had a failure to feed or extract or light firing pin strikes. It failed to lock the slide back on the last round 3 times using Winchester Walmart ammo.
Overall I thought the usp feels more precise in operation, while the Glock has a more rugged feel to it. IMHO , of course.
The Glock is much lighter and slightly smaller. Even so, I thought it had less recoil. Guess the grip angle put more of the recoil into my palm instead of the web of my hand. This also made it point more naturally for me. The trigger pull felt rubbery but smooth in the 17, whereas the usp feels like 'sproingy' hard plastic with lots of stacking(?). The Glock's trigger felt heavier as well but that could be the longer DA plus that lever on top of the trigger, compared to the usp SA pull. I never practice the DA pull on the usp because it's too heavy for me to shoot accurately. I prefer the sights on the usp because I can see target around the front sight. Racking the slide on the usp sounds like loose metal plates slapping against each other - very militaristic and very cool! My shooting results were similar between the two, which is not very good , so I cant comment on accuracy. For over 2400 rounds my usp has never had a failure to feed or extract or light firing pin strikes. It failed to lock the slide back on the last round 3 times using Winchester Walmart ammo.
Overall I thought the usp feels more precise in operation, while the Glock has a more rugged feel to it. IMHO , of course.
I also own both of these guns. I've had the G17 for a long time and haveonly had the USP9F for a short time.
Felt recoil is very similar but it is slightly less in the USP.
There is the difference in grip angle, but you can get used to that, either way.
The USP does seem to have a higher degree of precision in its manufacture. It also appears to be very well engineered and seems like it would last for a very long time.
The Glock, of course, has been proven to last a very long time.
I've put my Glock through some pretty bad conditions and have neglected it at times, and have never had a rust problem. Haven't had the HK long enough to know firsthand, but I've been hearing many cases of rusting USP's. Really, this is the main thing that bothers me about the USP.
I still am not sure which I really like better. The USP is probably a bit more accurate.
At this point, if I had to pick one or the other to have with me in a survival situation, where environmental conditions could be horrendous, I'd have to give the nod to the Glock. It's a very simple, utterly reliable gun. The USP is a bit more complicated, but probably just as reliable.
By the way, I can't detect that the Glock is "much lighter" than the USP. They seem about the same to me.
Oh yeah, I can do follow up shots much quicker with the Glock but that could change with more practice wit the USP.
Felt recoil is very similar but it is slightly less in the USP.
There is the difference in grip angle, but you can get used to that, either way.
The USP does seem to have a higher degree of precision in its manufacture. It also appears to be very well engineered and seems like it would last for a very long time.
The Glock, of course, has been proven to last a very long time.
I've put my Glock through some pretty bad conditions and have neglected it at times, and have never had a rust problem. Haven't had the HK long enough to know firsthand, but I've been hearing many cases of rusting USP's. Really, this is the main thing that bothers me about the USP.
I still am not sure which I really like better. The USP is probably a bit more accurate.
At this point, if I had to pick one or the other to have with me in a survival situation, where environmental conditions could be horrendous, I'd have to give the nod to the Glock. It's a very simple, utterly reliable gun. The USP is a bit more complicated, but probably just as reliable.
By the way, I can't detect that the Glock is "much lighter" than the USP. They seem about the same to me.
Oh yeah, I can do follow up shots much quicker with the Glock but that could change with more practice wit the USP.
No experience with the Glock.
The DA pull on the USP is truly heavy and gritty when new, around 12-13#, (and I like it!
Ideal for Condition 2 carry), and gets smoother with lots of dry firing and range use. I feel that the SA pull has three slightly noticeable stages before stiffening up at the last moment, around 5.5#, before it releases. But with a quick straight motion, i can't really distinguish these stages.
Trigger resets after a release of about 3/8". In my regular IPSC practice sessions, i could double tap faster than the others, except against the 1911's. When I hold the gun with my right thumb resting on safety (this guarantees that i disengaged the safety lever), I practically mimic a low bore shooter, as gripping it this way allows the web between thumb and trigger finger to brace against the frame immediately below the cocked hammer (glad that there's no bite! ). I feel little or no muzzle rise at all, as the entire weight of the slide is situated forward of my strong hand.
The four fingers of the weak hand completely brace the entire grip, also contributing to eliminate the torque of the recoiling slide. My weak thumb is "cocked" along the left frame on top of the slide release and also aids in preventing the decocker from being activated by the now tense right thumb. It doesn't matter even if i use 'major' loads (+P+), the rise is minimal, although the rearward kick is much more apparent.
You'll definitely enjoy a USP9. No flame intended, but it is supposed to be what a Glock should be if allowed to gestate to full term.
Come to think of it, you'll be the owner of the two best polymer pistols ever produced. Period.
Hope this helps.
The DA pull on the USP is truly heavy and gritty when new, around 12-13#, (and I like it!
Ideal for Condition 2 carry), and gets smoother with lots of dry firing and range use. I feel that the SA pull has three slightly noticeable stages before stiffening up at the last moment, around 5.5#, before it releases. But with a quick straight motion, i can't really distinguish these stages.Trigger resets after a release of about 3/8". In my regular IPSC practice sessions, i could double tap faster than the others, except against the 1911's. When I hold the gun with my right thumb resting on safety (this guarantees that i disengaged the safety lever), I practically mimic a low bore shooter, as gripping it this way allows the web between thumb and trigger finger to brace against the frame immediately below the cocked hammer (glad that there's no bite!
). I feel little or no muzzle rise at all, as the entire weight of the slide is situated forward of my strong hand. The four fingers of the weak hand completely brace the entire grip, also contributing to eliminate the torque of the recoiling slide. My weak thumb is "cocked" along the left frame on top of the slide release and also aids in preventing the decocker from being activated by the now tense right thumb. It doesn't matter even if i use 'major' loads (+P+), the rise is minimal, although the rearward kick is much more apparent.
You'll definitely enjoy a USP9. No flame intended, but it is supposed to be what a Glock should be if allowed to gestate to full term.
Come to think of it, you'll be the owner of the two best polymer pistols ever produced. Period.
Hope this helps.