Hello, Ive had a no4 enfield for a couple years now and I can't seem to hit the broad side of a barn with it. It always seems to hit very high I love the rifle and I would love to use it for hunting whIle still keeping it in its original condition. I recently learned that the flip down sight is set for 300yds which seems ridiculous for an open sight, can anybody confirm this? And are there any alterations I can make to zero for say 100yd? Thanks in advance!
Shooting a .303 enfield > 200yds
- Thread starter Spracklin
- Start date
You zero Enfields for elevation by swapping out front sights. The 300 yard zero is a battle sight, designed for hitting a man-sized target anywhere from across the room to 300 yards, and works fine for this (it is about 6" high at 100 and 7" at 200 yards) Armies used to train soldiers to aim at the belt buckle, so that workes just fine.
Which rear sight do you have? There is a discussion in this earlier thread here:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=474552
The two position Mk2 backsight you are kind of screwed, I don't think they make a front sight post high enough to get a good 100 yard zero. I do believe the rear sights are swapable though (hopefully one of the SMLE experts can confirm), so if you can find a Mk1 sight, you can get it properly zeroed and the range marks on the sight will be pretty close, assuming you use ammo that is comparable to the Mark VII military ammo it was designed around. The Privi-Partizan 174 FMJ is reasonably close, except that it is a boat tail bullet.
Here are instructions for zeroing the Enfield rifles, found it online a wile back, it looks like an excerpt from a military training manual of some sort:
TECHNICAL TRAINING SCHOOL REME ZEROING OF RIFLES (~500K PDF)
It has been suggested to me that REME is Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers, which was and is a corps of the British Army.
Which rear sight do you have? There is a discussion in this earlier thread here:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=474552
The two position Mk2 backsight you are kind of screwed, I don't think they make a front sight post high enough to get a good 100 yard zero. I do believe the rear sights are swapable though (hopefully one of the SMLE experts can confirm), so if you can find a Mk1 sight, you can get it properly zeroed and the range marks on the sight will be pretty close, assuming you use ammo that is comparable to the Mark VII military ammo it was designed around. The Privi-Partizan 174 FMJ is reasonably close, except that it is a boat tail bullet.
Here are instructions for zeroing the Enfield rifles, found it online a wile back, it looks like an excerpt from a military training manual of some sort:
TECHNICAL TRAINING SCHOOL REME ZEROING OF RIFLES (~500K PDF)
It has been suggested to me that REME is Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers, which was and is a corps of the British Army.
Mk 4 front sights are available in different heights, and are easy to change, but you need a special tool to loosen the reverse screw in the front sight base. You can make it easily enough by filing a slot in a proper size round rod.
If you have the two position rear sight, which was a wartime expediency, yes, you are kind of screwed. If you have the more sophisticated ladder sight (either milled or stamped), then, yes your peep sight (aka battle sight) is zeroed ca. 200-300 yds, and you are still screwed until you get a front sight of proper height to bring your zero closer to where you want it.
There are some aftermarket no gunsmithing rear sights that can be installed to help you with that problem as well.
If you have the two position rear sight, which was a wartime expediency, yes, you are kind of screwed. If you have the more sophisticated ladder sight (either milled or stamped), then, yes your peep sight (aka battle sight) is zeroed ca. 200-300 yds, and you are still screwed until you get a front sight of proper height to bring your zero closer to where you want it.
There are some aftermarket no gunsmithing rear sights that can be installed to help you with that problem as well.
Blindstitch
New member
It may not be the same but I believe there are bolt on scope blocks that you can use on that model without having to modify anything. Then when you don't want it on just take it off.
It may not be the same but I believe there are bolt on scope blocks that you can use on that model without having to modify anything. Then when you don't want it on just take it off.
www.atigunstocks.com They make a block to mount a scope, no permanent alterations to the rifle.
David
www.atigunstocks.com They make a block to mount a scope, no permanent alterations to the rifle.
David
Yes, perhaps, with a dash of maybe as well.
Let me explain.
Are you not hitting the barn because your shots are scattered all over God's country, or are they all close together, but away from the target?
If they're scattered everywhere its not your sights but something else. If they're close together, but off the target, then you can fix it with sights.
First the sights are set for 174 Gr. FMJ MkVII ball MilSurp ammo only. If you're shooting anything else then it'll need re-zeroing for the new ammo's trajectory.
Second it depends (as others have said) which rear sight you have.
I'm going to assume you have the screw adjustable on on the upper right of this diagram, you'll need to let us know because there are several different techniques to use depending on your rearsight.
The "battle sight" is set for 300, or 400 yds, depending on if there is a bayonet fitted or not.
Its done this way because its a battle rifle, not a target rifle so the eights are set to hit a man sized target quickly. With the 300 yd zero you aimed at his center of mass & the bullet's path would have risen up & fallen back down from point blank to 500 yds without ever leaving the man sized target. Handy for a war, but not so much for target shooting!
(The bayonet thing is similar, the British fixed bayonets at under 300 yds) so it auto-compensated for the changed point of impact!
To reset for 100yd shooting try this.
Use 180 Gr, or better still 174Gr FMJ MilSurp bullets.
Fold the "target sight" UP.
Set the moving sight block 4 clicks below "2" as indicated by the hash-mark on the side aligning with the "2" & then coming down 4 clicks.
Let us know how that works out for starters & we can get you sorted out in more detail.
Let me explain.
Are you not hitting the barn because your shots are scattered all over God's country, or are they all close together, but away from the target?
If they're scattered everywhere its not your sights but something else. If they're close together, but off the target, then you can fix it with sights.
First the sights are set for 174 Gr. FMJ MkVII ball MilSurp ammo only. If you're shooting anything else then it'll need re-zeroing for the new ammo's trajectory.
Second it depends (as others have said) which rear sight you have.
I'm going to assume you have the screw adjustable on on the upper right of this diagram, you'll need to let us know because there are several different techniques to use depending on your rearsight.
The "battle sight" is set for 300, or 400 yds, depending on if there is a bayonet fitted or not.
Its done this way because its a battle rifle, not a target rifle so the eights are set to hit a man sized target quickly. With the 300 yd zero you aimed at his center of mass & the bullet's path would have risen up & fallen back down from point blank to 500 yds without ever leaving the man sized target. Handy for a war, but not so much for target shooting!
(The bayonet thing is similar, the British fixed bayonets at under 300 yds) so it auto-compensated for the changed point of impact!
To reset for 100yd shooting try this.
Use 180 Gr, or better still 174Gr FMJ MilSurp bullets.
Fold the "target sight" UP.
Set the moving sight block 4 clicks below "2" as indicated by the hash-mark on the side aligning with the "2" & then coming down 4 clicks.
Let us know how that works out for starters & we can get you sorted out in more detail.
Sorry I can't seem to get a picture to work on here. The sights are similar to the second ones in that picture. ( my rifle is the Canadian made longbranch no4 mk1) I have been using the flip up sights because they start at 200yds and it hits tight groups but consistently about 6" high. My front sight is +.060 which I believe is the tallest and I am shooting 180g wwsupers. I will try all that today! Thanks a lot for the help!
You can also adjust some with choice of target.
If you use a round ball, 6 inch, you put the sight on the bottom and that puts it 3 inches lower.
8 inch and so on.
I can't do that due to my eyes but its a way to do it as well.
My choice for the 1917 is the black balls and various luck at 75 to 112 yds
I am happy if I can spatter the green stuff at either one of those ranges.
If you use a round ball, 6 inch, you put the sight on the bottom and that puts it 3 inches lower.
8 inch and so on.
I can't do that due to my eyes but its a way to do it as well.
My choice for the 1917 is the black balls and various luck at 75 to 112 yds
I am happy if I can spatter the green stuff at either one of those ranges.
According to that zeroing document, the tallest is +.075.
Each .015 increment should move your point of impact ~1.9" at 100 yards, so you really need to go up three steps, which would be .105
The good news is that even though that was never specified for the SMLE, it was evidently made for the STEN, which is supposed to work:
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?243335-No-4-front-sight-blade-opinions-sought
There is a ton of information in that thread, particularly the bit about the different sight bases.
Note the comments in post 7 about the 1.14 marked blades.
The easy button (if you can't find the STEN blade) might be to have a welder build some material on top of a spare sight blade, then file it down to where you need it.
Each .015 increment should move your point of impact ~1.9" at 100 yards, so you really need to go up three steps, which would be .105
The good news is that even though that was never specified for the SMLE, it was evidently made for the STEN, which is supposed to work:
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?243335-No-4-front-sight-blade-opinions-sought
There is a ton of information in that thread, particularly the bit about the different sight bases.
Note the comments in post 7 about the 1.14 marked blades.
The easy button (if you can't find the STEN blade) might be to have a welder build some material on top of a spare sight blade, then file it down to where you need it.
"...you need a special tool to loosen the reverse screw in the front sight base..." Regular screw driver with a slot ground in the blade.
A No. 4 Rifle is not an SMLE. No. 1 Mk III's are SMLE's.
You can buy a set of 3 front sight blades, of different heights, from these guys for $7.50. http://www.apexgunparts.com/enfield-4-foresight-blades-set-of-3-different-heights.html
You will also want to check the headspace and slug the barrel. Although if you're getting decent groups, your bullets are matching the bore ID.
A No. 4 Rifle is not an SMLE. No. 1 Mk III's are SMLE's.
You can buy a set of 3 front sight blades, of different heights, from these guys for $7.50. http://www.apexgunparts.com/enfield-4-foresight-blades-set-of-3-different-heights.html
You will also want to check the headspace and slug the barrel. Although if you're getting decent groups, your bullets are matching the bore ID.
He could, but it won't help him.
Apex doesn't list what sizes you get, and three random ones are probably what he has and shorter. The tallest one he may get in the front sight grab bag is .075, which is still too short to properly zero his rifle.
Numrich does list both Sten and No4 front blades, but I don't see a way to specify what size.
Not all have the "reverse screw" locking the front sight, some are just a friction fit.
With the rearsight on "2" you're about 3" too high, so you need to increase the front blade by 2 or 3 increments to be dead on.
The Canadians used a wider range of front sight heights, from -0.045" through + 0.120 (maybe Sten sights originally?), maybe someone like Marstar (Canada) might have something? They also come in several types, some with a split base some solid, make sure you replace with the same kind of sight as well as getting the height correct.
You can't just make the blade taller BTW its the base that is of different heights the blade is the exact same in all of them so you always have the same sight picture.
I guess you could make an extra notch for the locking lever below the "2" but I think your best bet might be to simply swap the stamped sight for a milled one. They aren't expensive & the installation is a snap, just 2 pins (#26 & #27 in the drawing) to pop off.
With the rearsight on "2" you're about 3" too high, so you need to increase the front blade by 2 or 3 increments to be dead on.
The Canadians used a wider range of front sight heights, from -0.045" through + 0.120 (maybe Sten sights originally?), maybe someone like Marstar (Canada) might have something? They also come in several types, some with a split base some solid, make sure you replace with the same kind of sight as well as getting the height correct.
You can't just make the blade taller BTW its the base that is of different heights the blade is the exact same in all of them so you always have the same sight picture.
I guess you could make an extra notch for the locking lever below the "2" but I think your best bet might be to simply swap the stamped sight for a milled one. They aren't expensive & the installation is a snap, just 2 pins (#26 & #27 in the drawing) to pop off.
Last edited:
Well, you can just make the blade taller by welding on material. The originals did not do this, as you state they varied the thickness of the base and kept the blade part the same, so the sight picture would remain look the same with any rifle you happened to pick up.
As collectors/shooters we do not have the same requirement. He could pick up a .075 blade, and have a good welder add .030" to the blade height, which isn't much.
If it was me, I would call Numrich and see if you can request a specific height for the sten blade they list. If they can provide him a .105 he is golden.
Oh, and you may want to file this away, thanks to the nice folks in the Great White North, eh.
Canadian Army First Line Maintenance Instructions, Rifle, Calibre .303, No4, All Marks With Equipment. (~800K PDF)
Being Canadian, the manual is half English, half French.
Wog is right, the sighting instructions state that their front sights range from -.045 to +.120.
Canadian Army First Line Maintenance Instructions, Rifle, Calibre .303, No4, All Marks With Equipment. (~800K PDF)
Being Canadian, the manual is half English, half French.
Wog is right, the sighting instructions state that their front sights range from -.045 to +.120.
That is a great manual, if fact the whole set of them is the absolute best modern reference on the Lee-Enfields I've found.
I don't know about nowadays but years back you could order them from the HMSO in Ottawa for a nominal fee. There are 13 in the whole set.
Definitely ask if they will sell you a specific height, you can only be told NO! at the worst.
I don't know about nowadays but years back you could order them from the HMSO in Ottawa for a nominal fee. There are 13 in the whole set.
Definitely ask if they will sell you a specific height, you can only be told NO! at the worst.