I'm new here and this may be a dumb question. I need to ship a revolver (Cimarron replica 1873 Peacemaker) to a licensed dealer. The only options I've found are very pricey (Fedex/UPS overnight delivery). Is it allowable to disassemble a handgun and send in two or more packages using less expensive delivery options and still be legal? Just wondering. Thanks
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Shipping question
- Thread starter dnajemnik
- Start date
Short answer is no on shipping as parts. The serial numbered frame is a firearm per federal law.
You might contact a local FFL and see if you can pay him a transfer fee and have him mail it for you.
FFL to FFL can use the U.S. Post Office and even with a FFL transfer fee, you might come out cheaper by mailing. I have done this several times.
You can also check into UPS Next day Air Saver. it might save you a bit.
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/re....html?srch_pos=1&srch_phr=handgun&WT.svl=SRCH
18 USC 921
"Sec. 921. Definitions
(a) As used in this chapter--
(3) The term ``firearm'' means (A) any weapon (including a starter
gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a
projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of
any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any
destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm."
You might contact a local FFL and see if you can pay him a transfer fee and have him mail it for you.
FFL to FFL can use the U.S. Post Office and even with a FFL transfer fee, you might come out cheaper by mailing. I have done this several times.
Section 1715. Firearms as nonmailable; regulations
Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable and shall not be deposited in or carried by the mail or delivered by any officer or employee of the Postal Service. Such articles may be conveyed in the mail, under such regulations as the Postal Service shall prescribe, for use in connection with their official duty, to officers of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps; to officers of the National Guard or militia of a state, territory, commonwealth, possession, or district; to officers of the United States or of a state, territory, or district whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitments; to employees of the Postal Service; to officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United States; and to watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United States, a state, territory, commonwealth, possession, or district. Such articles also may be conveyed in the mail to manufacturers of firearms or bona fide dealers therein in customary trade shipments, including such articles for repairs or replacement of parts, from one to the other, under such regulations as the Postal Service shall prescribe. Whoever knowingly deposits for mailing or delivery, or knowingly causes to be delivered by mail according to the direction thereon, or at any place to which it is directed to be delivered by the person to whom it is addressed, any pistol, revolver, or firearm declared nonmailable by this section, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
18 U.S.C. 1715
You can also check into UPS Next day Air Saver. it might save you a bit.
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/re....html?srch_pos=1&srch_phr=handgun&WT.svl=SRCH
carguychris
New member
FWIW if you haven't done so already, I recommend contacting the destination FFL to make sure they'll accept the gun before you send it. It's perfectly legal under federal law for an unlicensed individual to ship a gun to a FFL, but some FFLs refuse to accept such shipments so they won't be stuck holding the bag if the gun turns out to be stolen or illegally modified. If this is the case, a FFL-to-FFL transfer is the solution.
oldandslow
New member
dn, 6/23/09
Your question is not a dumb one, but one that comes up quite often and one which elicits a number of replies- some valid and some not.
Mailability of a firearm depends on a number of factors- whether it is a rifle or pistol, whether it is a C&R qualified weapon, whether it is being sent to another state or within your state, whether it is sent for repair or transfer of ownership, and whether it is being sent USPS or by contract carrier (Fedex or UPS).
If you look at USPS regulations for mailability of a pistol (use google and type in "domestic mail manual 432.1") you will see that mailing pistol parts is acceptable as long as they can not be reassembled into a complete weapon. You also have to satisfy the ATF's requirement which when paraphrased does not prevent an individual from mailing a firearm back to the dealer (google "27 c.f.r. 478.147" for the appropriate regulation).
So in a simple summary for your situation it is probably best to have a local FFL dealer ship it USPS to the dealer (simplest and cheapest). The USPS regulations do not mention breaking down the pistol into component parts and mailing it in separate boxes as being prohibited but I am not sure it would be wise. So take a look at the above regulations regarding shipping and make an informed decision. Good luck.
best wishes- oldandslow
Your question is not a dumb one, but one that comes up quite often and one which elicits a number of replies- some valid and some not.
Mailability of a firearm depends on a number of factors- whether it is a rifle or pistol, whether it is a C&R qualified weapon, whether it is being sent to another state or within your state, whether it is sent for repair or transfer of ownership, and whether it is being sent USPS or by contract carrier (Fedex or UPS).
If you look at USPS regulations for mailability of a pistol (use google and type in "domestic mail manual 432.1") you will see that mailing pistol parts is acceptable as long as they can not be reassembled into a complete weapon. You also have to satisfy the ATF's requirement which when paraphrased does not prevent an individual from mailing a firearm back to the dealer (google "27 c.f.r. 478.147" for the appropriate regulation).
So in a simple summary for your situation it is probably best to have a local FFL dealer ship it USPS to the dealer (simplest and cheapest). The USPS regulations do not mention breaking down the pistol into component parts and mailing it in separate boxes as being prohibited but I am not sure it would be wise. So take a look at the above regulations regarding shipping and make an informed decision. Good luck.
best wishes- oldandslow
Mailability of a firearm depends on a number of factors- whether it is a rifle or pistol, whether it is a C&R qualified weapon, whether it is being sent to another state or within your state, whether it is sent for repair or transfer of ownership, and whether it is being sent USPS or by contract carrier (Fedex or UPS).
The OP already said it was a revolver. C&R makes no difference. C&R handguns cannot be mailed unless FFL to FFL (C&R license holders are not included), or one of the other extremely limited exceptions in the statute - there is no exception for C&R handguns. The statute is quoted in post #2 above.
If you look at USPS regulations for mailability of a pistol (use google and type in "domestic mail manual 432.1") you will see that mailing pistol parts is acceptable as long as they can not be reassembled into a complete weapon. You also have to satisfy the ATF's requirement which when paraphrased does not prevent an individual from mailing a firearm back to the dealer (google "27 c.f.r. 478.147" for the appropriate regulation).
Already answered above (post #2) with the relevant statute cited. According to federal law, you cannot mail a handgun frame unless you are a FFL and to another FFL (C&R license holder not included as FFL) or one of the other extremely limited exceptions in 18 U.S.C. 1715. Very simple reason - under federal law, the frame is the firearm.
The USPS regulations do not mention breaking down the pistol into component parts and mailing it in separate boxes as being prohibited but I am not sure it would be wise.
Federal law makes it illegal. See above.
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oldandslow
New member
dn, 6/23/09
As you can see there is a lot of internet controversy on what is mailable. The best answer for most people is still to use an FFL to FFL transfer through the USPS.
Some of the problem is that different agencies involved in shipping firearms have different definitions of what constitutes a firearm. The USPS considers a completely intact workable pistol as a firearm, whereas other agencies consider the numbered frame as equivalent to a firearm (see following link to USPS definitions-www.net-ffl.com/pub52_43.html). Look at item 431.1.
At the same link is the prohibition of shipping a complete pistol disassembled via the USPS. There is no prohibition for shipping incomplete pistol parts, including the frame (although this is where you have to comply with the ATF shipping regulations).
If you look at the Code of Federal Regulations for the ATF, there is a subpart I called "Exemptions, Seizures, and Forfeitures" which states it is OK to ship a firearm back to a dealer or manufacturer (look at edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2006/aprqtr/27cfr478.147.htm).
As I mentioned in the earlier post, take any advice you get on the internet with some caution- do your own research and draw your own conclusions. Good luck.
best wishes- oldandslow
As you can see there is a lot of internet controversy on what is mailable. The best answer for most people is still to use an FFL to FFL transfer through the USPS.
Some of the problem is that different agencies involved in shipping firearms have different definitions of what constitutes a firearm. The USPS considers a completely intact workable pistol as a firearm, whereas other agencies consider the numbered frame as equivalent to a firearm (see following link to USPS definitions-www.net-ffl.com/pub52_43.html). Look at item 431.1.
At the same link is the prohibition of shipping a complete pistol disassembled via the USPS. There is no prohibition for shipping incomplete pistol parts, including the frame (although this is where you have to comply with the ATF shipping regulations).
If you look at the Code of Federal Regulations for the ATF, there is a subpart I called "Exemptions, Seizures, and Forfeitures" which states it is OK to ship a firearm back to a dealer or manufacturer (look at edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2006/aprqtr/27cfr478.147.htm).
As I mentioned in the earlier post, take any advice you get on the internet with some caution- do your own research and draw your own conclusions. Good luck.
best wishes- oldandslow
As you can see there is a lot of internet controversy on what is mailable.
Controversy? Only for those who choose to ignore the plain meaning of a federal statute (otherwise known as "federal law").
We will try to make it real simple:
1. Federal law (specifically, 18 U.S.C. 921) says: "firearm" includes " the frame or receiver of
any such weapon;"
2. The same federal law says: "The term “handgun” means—
(A) a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand; and
(B) any combination of parts from which a firearm described in subparagraph (A) can be assembled."
3. The USPS (specifically, the Domestic Mail Manual) says: "handgun means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm or device the mailing of which is regulated by this standard."
4. Federal law (specifically, 18 U.S.C. 1715) says that: "Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable..."
So, according to the USPS, handgun means firearm, and according to federal law, firearm includes the frame.
Some of the problem is that different agencies involved in shipping firearms have different definitions of what constitutes a firearm. The USPS considers a completely intact workable pistol as a firearm, whereas other agencies consider the numbered frame as equivalent to a firearm (see following link to USPS definitions-www.net-ffl.com/pub52_43.html). Look at item 431.1.
That is simply put, total nonsense. Federal law defines the frame of a firearm as a firearm. All federal agencies are bound by that definition. Mailing a handgun (including just the frame) is a violation of federal law unless one of the extremely limited exceptions applies. Period.
But if in your fantasy world, the USPS is somehow magically exempted from the same federal law that applies to everyone else, try this - the person mailing the firearm frame is bound by federal law and the law makes mailing a handgun frame illegal (limited exceptions for nonC&R FFL to FFL, etc., noted).
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I wonder if a silencer is considered to be "other firearms capable of being concealed"? I know it is legally a firearm, but can I send it by USPS to myself from WA to NV?
The NFA law is a different section, and uses its own definition of firearm.
A silencer is an NFA item, but not a firearm under other sections of the law.
A silencer is an NFA item, but not a firearm under other sections of the law.
Not correct.
A silencer is defined as a firearm under 18 U.S.C. 921 (the same federal statute that defines a frame as a firearm).
§ 921. Definitions
(a) As used in this chapter—
(3) The term “firearm” means
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/search/display.html?terms=silencer&url=/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000921----000-.html