Sex and Age

Age and Sex

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kaylorinhi

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In a Conservation mindset!

What age and sex deer should be taken as management type culling?

I have all the needed permissions to stop the harvest destruction by shooting any deer on the property! Score! Now my Dilemma, what groups age and sex will have the best postive outcome for the farmer and the best assitance to the gene pool. I have seen no obvious genetic malfunctions and I will not shoot Doe w/ Fawns.
 
Shooting bucks will only get you limited success in culling a herd because one Buck can cover a lot of does. You have to cull the doe to be effective. If a fawn is without spots and nearly the size of its mother it will survive on its own, they break loose from her at 1 year anyway. If you are culling shoot both of them.

When I lived down in and near Crooked County Illinois all of the deer were not only very destructive but the forest preserves were being ruined because the heavy deer population ate everything in reach and almost every adult deer I saw was barely 2/3 of what should have been normal size.

Proposed hunts were always met by protesters and the county and state weenies always caved in. The destruction went on and the deer started getting sick. Ah hell don't get me started. When you are culling because of over population get them both, a starving fawn is not going to thank you for sparing him or her.
 
You cant manage anything by shooting bucks, It is Does, You reduce Does, you reduce numbers.
The farmer isnt worried about deer genetics, he is more concerned with saving his crops.
 
Kill the does. Every doe, every year, will be impregnated, even if there is only a breeding buck population of 3% of animals.

Killing a big buck just gives freedom to allow the
losers to get their sexual jollies, and possibly allow the losers to pass on bad genes.

The only sensible thing, from a breeding standpoint, is to cull poor breeding males, (nontypical antleres, for example) and females. Once a deer grows old and into a serious trophy, then, go ahead and give the up and coming bucks a chance
 
Thank you all

I have a real odd, in my very limited whitetail experience, Doe, she is normal fawn(brown) color but has a black face, I mean solid black from the ears to the nose above the eyes on the top-side of the head! No pic as my attempt to use the camera/scope combo didn't work out so well!

Yes, the Farmer does not care but since I am the only hunter on the road I figure that I should do my part. I know there is one nice 8-pointer, last year, out there. I will probably let him live again!

I have heard about worms and other reasons to burn or remove the carcass from the immediate area in the hot summer weather. Is this a real threat to local birds of prey and such, and is it dangerous for us humans to eat?
 
Got to go with brian on this one, if the point is to remove them for crop protection take out any and all does.
 
Can I help? Please, I will do my best to help in every way. I will also remove and feast on the deer I harvest. Let me know if you need help.:D
 
Main question, Is there any parasite that will not be killed by proper cooking, 160 I believe? I really want some fresh stew, or steaks, or, or...

OttoJara, my daughter's Dora bunk beds are open until T-Giving?
 
I'm not a biologist but as far as i know the only thing you are going to have to worry about is the increase of ticks on the deer. Any parasites in the guts shouldn't effect the meat,other than the organ meats. With the warm weather, its critical to get the meat cooled down as fast as possible. . Remember Warm + moist+ time = bacterial growth. 1 turns into 2, 2 turns into 4 ect.

I would do as i have always done.... Shoot, gut, and get the meat off the bone and into a cooler ASAP. If you are going to be waiting awhile before you can skin and debone it, i would get it in the shade fill the abdominal cavity with ice, and if you can pack the whole thing in ice wrapped up in a tarp or something. Of course if you can get it from the deer right into the fridge..that works too :D

Use common sense, do not stack all the meat on top of the ice in the cooler, or all the meat in a big pile. Put a layer of ice down, venison, ice, venison ect ect and cover with ice. Leave the drain hole OPEN and tipped toward it. You do not want to water log the meat. This will get the meat cooled down fast, and gives you some time to get setup to package the meat and put it in your freezer. I'd still try to get the meat frozen as fast as possible, but don't think a day or 2 on well drained ice would hurt anything.

This is just what i do/would do, i'm sure others let deer sit in the sun all day w/o gutting and don't have a problem with it. Personally I treat all meat the same way, as soon as its done dying, get the meat off and cooled as fast as possible. THis way i haven't had a problem, and you wont second guess yourself.
 
Back a tad over 40 years ago, I moved back to the old family ranch. I quickly discovered that we had way, way too many deer. I did a culling program. I shot does, mature spikes, and "scraggle-horn" bucks anytime I had the chance. I flat-out got tired of dressing and butchering deer during that three-year period. Gutting and butchering in August in Texas isn't the most fun activity. But, they "ate real good"; I became an expert chef at the barbecue pit.

By the fourth year, body weights were up an average of some 30% and occasionally better. Racks were much nicer.

Taking out does reduces the herd size, with the idea being to stay with the carrying capacity of the land--which will vary with the habitat. Removing "bad antlers" from the gene pool seems to me to be a Good Thing. I didn't bother the decently-racked bucks except during the regular season. :)
 
Thank you all, for the insight and cementing some views and showing me some new ones in regards to conservation and herd management!

Mike

Otto, I am up near the NC/VA border!
 
One thing you can also do is join QDMA. Quality Deer Management Association , they have ton's of info and membership is cheap and being from the east coast they have a pretty big chapter. They have top biologist and what grows well for the area you live for food plots, every thing from aging deer to what to cull and how to determine genetics's . I've been a member for 5 years now and it has really helped our hunting club out. Something you might want to check out.
 
culling

as culling goes...
kill all the does and fawns/yearlings.
You can shoot the mother and sometimes get the fawns/yearlings too.
They eat about as much to grow as a grown deer.
If you are watching a field and a buck comes out wait for a doe.
If none shows take the buck. He eats crops too.
with a yearling and a buck take the yearling...it may be a doe.
Your bucks with get big, old and die of old age.
You will kill less and less deer as time goes by.
 
If you are serious about the herd managment, shooting does is your only choice.

If you are only interested in trying to increase antler size, that's your thing, but I wouldn't do it in the name of preventing "harvest destruction" for the farmer.

If the farmer has given you permission to cull the herd to help his harvest and keep the herd at a healthy level, shoot the does. I doubt he'd give you permission if he knew your only goal was taking out inferior bucks.
 
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My main purpose is not just herd genetic's but the harvest protection. I am just interested in getting opinions on the lesser bucks. For now I will stay with the does and manage numbers that way. I will just take the lesser bucks early in the season(pre-rut) to allow the other bucks to spread the juice!
 
Some generalities: Smaller, younger bucks are more active during the early part of the rut than are the older bucks. If the genetics of the herd are good, this won't hurt anything. It's all about the genes, not the age or size.

In general, a mature spike buck is regarded as "inferior" as to genetics. That makes sense in that bucks are supposed to have multiple tines, right?

Quality of habitat, even for just one year, can affect the size of antlers. A lack of rain in the spring can mean poor antler growth, while summer rains can enable good body weights in the fall and on into the hunting season. The caveat is that genetics can have some bucks with spindly, lightweight antlers regardless of the quality of the habitat. Local knowledge is necessary to determine which factor is more important.
 
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