Set the Branch Davidians free!

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http://www.enterstageright.com/0999davidian.htm
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Set the Branch Davidians free

By Vin Suprynowicz

Documentary filmmaker Mike McNulty of Colorado, whose "Waco:
The Rules of Engagement" was nominated for an Academy Award, is
prepared to release a sequel this fall, presenting evidence that at least
six spent incendiary mortar rounds and "flash-bang devices" (the kind
that can start fires) were found in the main Mount Carmel church (not
just two, and not just in some outbuilding) following the final assault
by federal troops in Waco, Texas in April of 1993. The new film will
also document the assignment -- illegal without a special presidential
order -- of members of the Army's elite Delta Force to be present
during that final, deadly government assault, against American
civilians on American soil.

What a coincidence that the FBI
in the past week has admitted to
only as much as Mr. McNulty
and the Texas Rangers can
apparently now prove --
"spinning" these revelations with
the bizarre explanation that (only
two) incendiary mortar rounds
were fired, only into an outbuilding, hours before the fatal fire which
killed 80 people (including scores of innocent women and children.)

Of course, it was Mr. McNulty and his associates who first used the
Freedom of Information Act to pry from the federal government the
aerial "Forward-Looking Infrared" footage of the final Waco assault
-- the real assault, conducted on the back side of the building, out of
sight of commercial television cameras -- revealing what several
experts have interpreted as fully-automatic rifle fire into the building
from positions behind the armored vehicles as those converted tanks
moved in to knock down walls and staircases and spray in flammable
and disorienting CS gas, effectively making escape impossible for
most.

The idea that these are the first "Waco lies" to be revealed is mere
wishful thinking. To gain access to military helicopters for the initial
assault (by armed tax collectors supposedly investigating reports of
an unpaid $200 machine gun tax, but in fact mostly anxious to pull off
a dramatic televised raid shortly before their upcoming congressional
funding hearings), government agents had to lie on affidavits
contending they believed the Rev. David Koresh was running a
methamphetamine lab in his church. He was not, and no one ever
believed he was.

The government has long insisted there was no gunfire into the
building from the helicopters during the initial February raid, though
non-Branch Davidian witnesses allowed into the building before it
burned saw downward-splintered bullet holes through the ceiling, and
eyewitnesses have sworn to me they saw gunfire coming from those
helicopters.

Attorney General Janet Reno said the final assault had to be ordered
because of new evidence Koresh and others were abusing children in
the church, though the Justice Department later admitted there was
no such new evidence.

Some might be tempted to dismiss all this as ancient history. But let's
recall that most of the Branch Davidian survivors -- not their
assailants -- were put on trial following the fiery holocaust at Waco,
and seven were sentenced to decades in prison despite being
unanimously found innocent on every major, capital charge.

Yes, they're all still in jail, despite being unanimously acquitted of any
wrongdoing in the deaths of four federal agents -- agents killed in the
initial raid by bullets whose type and caliber the prosecutors were
never willing to identify.

And those sentences were meted out over the written objection of
jury forewoman Sarah Bain, a Texas schoolteacher, who tells me the
jury was shocked at the size of the sentences -- and who wrote to
the judge that the jury assumed the defendants would be released for
"time served" on the few minor, technical charges on which they were
convicted.

Writing in a recent Wall Street Journal, Dr. Alan Stone, who teaches
both law and psychiatry at Harvard University and who was brought
in by the Justice Department to write an independent review of the
handling of the Waco siege, says: "I do not know whether the FBI's
pyrotechnic devices, which the bureau has finally acknowledged,
actually started the fire. I do know that much of the gas was aimed at
the so-called bunker where most of the children suffocated. I do not
know whether Delta Force military advisers drove the tanks; I do
know the tank drivers departed from the agreed-upon plan and, for
reasons never explained, started crushing the compound. As in
Vietnam, the government decided to destroy the village in order to
save it. ...

"But there is one truth that should be obvious by now; the Branch
Davidians were more victims than culprits. ... Mr. Clinton should
pardon them. By now he must realize both that the government made
reckless mistakes at Waco and that those federal prisoners were
motivated by deeply held religious convictions."

Dr. Stone is correct. If Mr. Clinton can justify his recent pardon of a
dozen pro-independence Puerto Rican terrorists who set off of
bombs -- causing one police officer to lose an eye -- how can he
allow breakaway Seventh Day Adventist parishioners who merely
tried to defend themselves and their children when illegally attacked in
their home to continue serving sentences longer than those which we
impose on many a premeditated killer?

Set the Branch Davidians free. Indict their perjury-prone assailants.

[/quote]

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Interesting how CNN's coverage continues to emphasize that the FBI has "released new information regarding the use of incendiaries. Not hat they have "admitted" it or been "caught" in it, but that they've "released" it.

Mr. and Mrs. America are given the impression that this was some sort of voluntary disclosure.
Rich
 
Of course, if they were pardoned, the BDs would be able to tell their story to anyone who would listen, and right now, they'd be treated like E.F. Hutton. Somehow I just don't think they will be released anytime soon, since they were there, and they know what really happened.

Of course, that doesn't mean we shouldn't be pushing, hard, for their pardon. If ever there was an issue worth contacting your congresscritter about it's this one.

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"The right of self-defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." Henry St. George Tucker
 
It looked to me that the LEO's on scene did not want to capture anyone. Guys ducked behind care firing into the compound...

Did ANYONE see ANY DAVIDIAN FIRING out of the windows at the Guys behind the cars?

------------------
"Supreme authority derives from a mandate from the masses. Not from some farsicle aquatic ceremony."

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
 
Ok...just heard on the news that as of this minute 12 of the Puerto Rican FALN terrorist group offered a pardon from Clinton have accepted!!

Now, if you read the article I posted....how come the BD's who were not convicted of anything and found innocent of the charges are in jail? While that obscenely corrupt President of ours offers convicted and admitted terrorist bomber/bank robber/killers pardons? This is completely insane!

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Maybe the Davidians will be released if they promise to move to New York and register with the DNC.

YOUR BROTHER IN ARMS ----------CHAINSAW
 
What have we come to? What kind of nation is this anymore? What would my great-grandfather think of the great-grandson who let this happen?
 
Gwinny, DC, etal. This thread has digressed to the point where I must interject the following: My own words. If we, meaning the members of TFL ,NRA, etc., IF we should submit a precise copy of the Declaration of Independence withour namessigned and a precise copy of The Constitution Of The United States Of America with it's amendments as they stand into a single, unamended document to the GOVERNMENT we would surely be rounded up, or have unfortunate things happen to us! Willy "PETE" grenades would have a new meaning!
Steady folks, Hank
remember when I said stuff like "good shooting"?
 
HankL, They would only round us up if we allow them to do so. Isn't it sad that most Americans will give up freedom and their God given rights, for a fat 401K, a new SUV, and a place by the lake. I for one, can not imagine telling my grandchildren that they can't go hunting or target shooting because their grampa gave that all up for a government health ins. plan and a government retirement program. The thought of this brings a tear to my eye, and just know that if the time ever comes that I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I make a bad decision. God Forbid. If you don't have freedom what is the rest worth?

YOUR BROTHER IN ARMS-----------CHAINSAW
 
This whole pardon of the Puerto Rican "Freedom Fighters" is such an insult.

It was offered 3 weeks ago and it took that long for most of the defendants to agree to "renounce violence"! Two are still "thinking about it"!!!!!

I'm with DC. How 'bout we offer the same deal to the Davidians, found guilty of nothing...think they'll take a month to deliberate?

And this putz wants to invoke the "For the Children" theme? I really want to retch.
Rich
 
CHAINSAW, My only Grandfather that was living when I was born was a German immigrant who was told by his parent's to go to America and not look back. This was just prior to WW 1. What can he be thinking now? He's been dead since 1957 and that was well before some of the problems we are having now but prior to others.

The Davidian's and the others who were killed in the Mt. Carmel community were much like the human beings who were massacred in the Warsaw Ghetto. Ghetto is what it was called by history, neighborhood is where these people moved to. Just like us I suppose.

Hank
 
There was a commentary in the WSJ about a week ago with the same theme, penned by one of the original investigators as I recall. Based upon what I know about the case, I certainly agree. The only way our federal government will ever put Waco behind them is with a full, independent investigation, heads rolling where appropriate, and pardons for the BD's who survived that tragedy. And, if federal agents really did fire on people trying to flee from that inferno, they should be brought up on charges of first degree murder - tell me how that act, if true, could not have been premeditated. No more 'retirements' or 'transfers' for such egregious acts.

I still remain amazed that Americans drove armored vehicles into wooden buildings when they knew the conditions inside. Women, children, wooden buildings, hay bales, and lanterns for light. I don't care if they fired incendiary devices - the actions they admit to were foolhardy beyond even gross negligence. The whole thing stinks to high heaven, and it may take heaven indeed to solve this mess.

I'm not a very religous guy, but if there is a Hell, I certainly hope the people responsible for this debacle and the subsequent coverup burn in Hell forever.

I think the crowning achievement in this travesty was when our Democratic 'friends' tried to make the case that they had to go in because of the BD's child abuse. This they claimed, after incinerating 2 dozen children. Shame on Janet Reno and her cohorts. So much for 'doing it for the children'. These are truly evil people.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited September 07, 1999).]
 
1) IF the Dividians are pardoned, you can bet your bottom dollar it will be on the condition they do not discuss the raid (or anything related to the raid) in any manner.

2) None of us, as individuals or in small groups, can withstand the concentrated force which the government can bring to bear. The Waco tragedy proves that beyond a doubt.

And the government, wise in the ways of tyranny, will not act so quickly or harshly that we unite.

Therefore, we will not stand, we shall surely fall.

I fear that within a decade, firearms ownership will be "controlled" to such an extent that there will be less than 100,000 firearms in private hands - in the land of the free and the home of the brave.

---------------------------------
For those who disbelieve, note that in California, the police already are going house to house searching out the owners of certain "criminalized" firearms. And the "amnesty" period is not yet over. What will happen after 1/1/00?
-----------------------------------
Note: dtg 9/8/99 1003PM. The above comment apparently is not true. Thank God!
Regret the posting error. Ecstatic it was IN error! /s/ Dennis
------------------------------------

We may posture, protest, and pontificate about fighting to the death. But when the police with guns invade our homes and threaten our families the bravado bubble bursts, our friends are not around, and we will succumb to the fascists.

Welcome to the American Ghetto.


3) Before you "prove" me wrong, I ask you to bookmark this thread and review it in six months. By then we will have some names of the brave few who die resisting the "new" American way. If that happens, let us consider the lines from Red Dawn:
Remember me, boys. "Avenge me!"

4) (aside) I'm so angry right now I can hardly type. RKBA!




[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited September 08, 1999).]
 
Dennis, i understand you 100%. The Global Plantation is nearly complete and 6 months from now, like you say, we will not recognize where we all live. Dont look for any Branch Dividians to be set free. They will probably be liquidated in their cells before any see the light of day. This nation more and more reminds me of the Roman republic and her decline and fall into democracy and eventualEmperorship.
 
Anything goes in the name of "The war on drugs"
Remember, those tanks & those helicopters leagally could not have been at Waco except that the liers went to a corrupt magistrate and claimed that they suspect a methamphetamine lab was being run there.
This is the only exception where the U.S. Military can be used against it's own citizens. This needs to be changed because it's obvious that the Feds missuse this power. Yesterday Waco, tomorrow you? Me?
 
Dennis,

I have to disagree on point two. What if instead of holing up, holding fire and letting ATF walk away, they had done what any of us would have done to Home invaders? They beat them back, forced em to a standstill and then quit. Let it be a reminder to all of us, that if in the same situtaion, we have the upper hand, we force it. We've discovered, American Government doesn't take prisoners, unless the jump out a window on the camera side. Why should we? Statements like we can't resist this, just don't work for me. One bullet in the heart of the chopper pilot before strafes a house, negates the chopper. Same with a tank and planes. We must admit, if we are forced to take our country back from the hands that abuse here, it won't be without a cost, but we must also realize it's a cost that's been paid many times since 1776.

Not trying to step on toes Dennis, just trying to make a statement. Small groups can win, if they fight and leave, same with one man with a rifle, but the minute we attack and stand around, we'll be bombed out of existance. We must also remember we have lots of folks in Law Enforcement that won't allow this to happen on their watch ever again. I know a few of em, and I'm just one man.



------------------
Live Free or Die Trying,

Steve
 
Ruger,

No sweat about toes. Mine have been flattened and much of it is
deserved - as in this case. ;)

My comment about defeat being inevitable was made shortly after
receiving bad info and being unusually disheartened. That rarely
happens and I’m over it.

This proves several obvious points (again!):
1) Dennis, check your info before you believe it! (sigh)
2) Dennis, losing your head NEVER pays! (sigh again)
3) Dennis! Think twice! Post once! (sigh yet again)
-----

We seem to agree that “holing up” (as did the Davidians) is a losing
proposition.

Hit and run appears to be the only way to win against superior forces.
Push until you feel steel, then withdraw. (Who WAS that who made that
popular? I want to say it was Ho Chi Minh or Mao Tse Dung (oops).)

And if you can shoot well enough heart shoot a chopper pilot in flight,
you keep on practicing your marksmanship. I’ll practice reloading your
magazines! ;)
-----

In the interim, however, let’s maximize our power at the ballot box! If a
candidate favors gun control of any kind, he loses my vote. Period.

If a pro-gun candidate and I disagree on other important matters, we can
sort that out later so long as we the people keep the Second Amendment
inviolate.

Once the Second Amendment is secured, we start on the first and fourth,
etc.
-------

And (to get back on thread) what can we do to hear the Davidians' side of the story? And to set them free?

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited September 13, 1999).]
 
Dennis,

Hit him on the ground before he ever cranks her up,and the chopper is meaningless. If you can control the airfield by never allowing them to fly, control the base before the tanks start to roll, or the artillery before it's set-up, you can match em man to man on the ground. Troops are trained to fight with all the above in support of them, take that support away before it ever has a chance to become a part of the conflict and you're good to go.



------------------
Live Free or Die Trying,

Steve
 
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