service calibers with 231, what's it like?

R

riverratt

New member
As my supplies dwindles down and powder is finally starting to show up on the shelves of LGS, it's time to replenish my powder inventory. I found an 8 lb bottle of win 231 and thought heck why not.

I am planning to us this powder to load all the major service calibers (except 357 sig) with a mild target load. I have never used this powder before but it's my understanding that it's ideal for what I want, right?

Up to date I've used primarily HS-6 and unique but both of those powers tend to favor near max changes and there's just no need for the increased wear on the gun. (I shoot a lot)

What I'm mainly looking to have answered is what is its characteristics?
Does it tend to favor heavy for caliber bullets, light for caliber?
Touchy pressure spikes with heavy bullets?
Ect ect

Of course I'm going to do my own load work up, I'm just looking to save a bit of time/money by not using a good powder for a less then ideal situation. (I.E. loading a heavy bullet near max when the powder is designed for mid-range light bullet use.)
 
I have used 231 for all my .45 Auto loads in 230 grain, both FMJ and HP. It is a very good powder for these and I get good consistency and accuracy.

Good luck,
Tony C.
 
I have used a lot of 231 for my 45auto 230gr-ball ammo. Seems to be accurate and doesn't dirty my gun up as fast as SR4756 did. I use the 231 for the 225/230gr HP's as well. I also use 231 for loading my 38spcl 158gr SWC with no complaints. I can routinely hit a softball hung from a wire @ 30yrds with the 38spcl ammo so I'm pleased with it.
 
I have had enough unburned powder granules in <5 grain loads with 200 grain SWC ammo in a S&W revolver to make chambering successive rounds problematic, and poor accuracy, in that revolver using 231. I have not had this issue with a 1911 at the same charge weights.

I am confident that this is something I can figure out, but for the short term I have chosen to load Ramshot Competition instead.
 
I run it (in HP-38 form) in 9x19mm and .380 Auto.
Works well, and is fairly forgiving of metering deviation.

Just don't use W296 data for it. I have an uncle that did so. Things didn't work out very well for him....
 
Win231/HP-38 is a great powder. I use it in 9mm, 38spl, 357 mag, 45 Autorim, 45 ACP and 45 Colt.

I use it for light gallery loads in 30-30, 7X57 and 30-06.

It burns clean and the accuracy is very good.
 
It meters well and seems to provide very consistent loads with small variance in velocity.
(If all other aspects of reloading are up to par, of course).
It can be kind of dirty, though, depending on caliber and load, as reported.
But it's easily cleaned.
It's a good choice, when it can be found, these days.
Go for it, you won't be disappointed.
 
I found an 8 lb bottle of Win 231
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So you found the Holy Grail. And a bunch of TFL readers are jealous.

What I'm mainly looking to have answered is what is its characteristics?
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W231 (also marketed as Hodgdon HP-38) Is a fast target propellant, but isn't super fast, like Bullseye, Nitro 100, or V V N-310, and the like. It has a touch of "slowness" to it, and falls more closely into the subgroup of Red Dot, AA#2, TiteGroup, 700X, etc. It seems to be a somewhat low-energy propellant; so it doesn't burn hot, but it takes a little more charge weight to deliver the same results as some of its contemporaries. I have done extensive testing with it in 38 Special and 45 ACP at target levels; and I can tell you that it usually behaves with superb consistency. For 45 ACP, my recipe of 5.0 grains under a 200gn LSWC is THE legacy round that I load. I have loaded this recipe uninterrupted since 1984. And through my Colt full-size 1911, it's pure accuracy.

Does it tend to favor heavy for caliber bullets, light for caliber?
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It doesn't seem to tend much one way or the other. Like other propellants, where a heavier bullet generally yields a more consistent result; but at the expense of a steeper pressure curve. That's part of W231's charm: it's not "quirky." It does the things you'd expect it to do.

Touchy pressure spikes with heavy bullets?
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I've only found it "touchy" with 357 Magnum, under 158 jacketed bullets. I now choose other powders. It's an odd combination anyway, so I haven't spent a lot of time trying to understand it. Just moved on. Anyway, that's just me and one situation (two actually, as I repeated it). Overall, it is not prone to pressure spikes. Bullseye, for instance, has a stronger tendency for spikes - but even Bullseye is nothing a prudent and cautious loader can't keep under control. Of course, W231 is a fast powder. And like all fast powders, you have to watch for double-charges, and loading in a wreckless manner can get you into trouble.
 
Awesome, thanks for the replies.

I started my first test loads for my 40 S&W with 4.6 gr of 231 under a 180 gr Barry's plated bullet. Well okay 50 rounds with 4.6 gr and 3 round with the 4.4 gr starting load.
 
I load W231 in 38 special, 9mm, 45acp, I've found it to be a great powder choice for those cartridges, I never had good results with it in 40S&W.

For magnum cartridges or large volume cartridges like 45 Colt I prefer 2400, 4227 or HS6.
 
One of the most accurate groups I have EVER shot from ANY pistol was with 3.0/231/158 SWC in .38 Special, from a S&W M65 that must have had 50,000 rounds through it.

I think ALL powders tend to burn better & more cleanly as pressures increase, though with some the difference is more noticeable than with others. In the faster burning powders, the difference between "middlin'" pressures and higher pressures may be difficult to discern. With powders in or near the same burning range as Unique, the difference is pretty obvious.

People keep telling me to try W231 in place of Unique, but when I do, something inevitably suffers. Maybe it's self-fulfilling prophecy on my part. I have a friend who would use nothing else in his .38 Spl and .45 ACP target loads, and he won plenty of matches with his loads. When W231 became unavailable, he was forced to try Winchester WST, and now he'll use nothing but THAT. ...and he STILL wins plenty of matches, DARN HIM!

One of the best falling-plate match shooters I've ever seen used 4.0/Bullseye/200 SWC in .45 ACP. Low recoil, excellent accuracy, and surprisingly clean burning. I switched to that load for falling-plate, and the difference in my scores were noticeable from the outset.

I tried the same load under a 230 gr. LRN and a 225 gr. cast TC, for a "general purpose" load, and liked it very well. I'm not absolutely sure that either of these would make "major" for contests who check such things, but I'm not absolutely certain they would NOT.

The same charge under a 250 gr. SWC/Keith/RNFP makes for a very effective and not unpleasant "bowling pin" load. When the bullet hits the bowling pin squarely, it seems to kinda "launch" the pin off the "table" rather than just shoving in a straight line of the edge. Others may experience different results.
 
4.6 gr of 231 under a 180 gr Barry's plated bullet.
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This would be the "heavy for caliber" loading you were questioning ;)

Your pressure curve will be steep; but not alarmingly so. I would be willing to load the 231/180gn combination for 40 S&W (I don't load for 40 S&W; only 10mm Auto). It definitely fits within my load style. I bet somewhere within its safe loading window lies an excellent, consistent, clean burning combination for range practice. But that's for you to find.

Loading 50 rounds at 4.6gns may have been a bit of a leap of faith though ;). I have no safety concerns. It's just that loading such large quantities of load workup rounds is not common practice this early in your work up phase. But oh well; its done now. My gut tells me they'll shoot nice. But that's just my gut; and my gut is sometimes wrong. That's why I do load workups; and start with small quantities; then increase the quantities as I narrow down to my final desired recipe ;)

Sierra 5th lists 231/180gn from 4.4gn to 5.6gn.
 
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I think ALL powders tend to burn better & more cleanly as pressures increase
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Absolutely! As loaders - especially novice loaders - we are conditioned to fear pressure. But pressure is good. In my advanced years of loading, I have come to understand that you need a good operating pressure - not 100% of SAAMI max; but probably getting up there - say, 80% or so (no, I have no way of measuring pressure; I'm guessing, based on extensive experience).

When one loads a lot of target/competition ammo (like me), you come to appreciate fast powders. Even super-fast powders like Nitro 100 (NF) and V V N-310. They develop a lot of pressure quickly; and thus, burn clean while delivering modest velocities.

When I first conceive of a load work up, my first thought is "what powder is going to give me high enough pressure to operate properly, for the velocity I want to achieve. Or another way to look at it: "What's the fastest powder I can use for this application?" Perhaps, conceptually, that's more for the advanced loader. But that's where I am.

In the faster burning powders, the difference between "middlin'" pressures and higher pressures may be difficult to discern. With powders in or near the same burning range as Unique (intermediate burn rate powders), the difference is pretty obvious.
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You are exactly correct. What you are really saying is that faster powders have a steeper pressure curve, so it's harder to see their differences in behavior over a range of charge weights. Intermediate powders have a broader window, so it's easier to see the differences.
 
This would be the "heavy for caliber" loading you were questioning-CENSORED-
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Yup. I favor the heavy for caliber bullets for a couple of reasons. First, that's what I carry so I want to practice with the same recoil impulse. Second, a lot of my "fun" shooting is at a dueling tree that my co-worker has. We have 6-8 people show up every payday, throw 50 bucks in a pot and hold a friendly competition. Winner takes all. (Heck of a way to unwind after the long work week:D) The heavier bullets just seem to send the plates back on the opponent's side with more authority.
 
I like heavy for caliber bullets too.

Never shot the dueling tree. I've always wanted to though. I've never been to a place where it's allowed.
 
I am currently loading a batch of 38 Special target with Hornady Cowboy 140 gr and HP-38. The powder is not bulky, so I can just barely see into the case to verify powder charge before placing a bullet. I find SR4756 is better in regard to use in tall standing, small caliber cases. I tend to use HS-6 and Trailboss for the same reason.
 
231 is my go to powder for probably 95% of my handloading.

.32 Long, moderate loads in .32-20, .38 Special, light to mid loads in .357 Mag., light loads in .41 Mag, .45 ACP.

The only rounds I don't reload with 231 are .44 Special and .45 Colt.
 
If 180gn Berrys in the .40S&W is what you're planning on shooting you should look at trying Power Pistol. I shoot several different calibers but for some reason I seem to shoot more .40S&W the most to the tune of about 20k rounds or so of it over the past 6 years when I first tried this caliber.
 
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