Serbu 50 BMG
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Mark Serbu and 150+ of his clients talk about the Surbu BFG (Big F*cking Gun) _daily_, on the Bigger Hammer BBS, at:
http://www.biggerhammer.net/barrett/wwwboard/
They call themselves "Club Serbu", eg, CS#123 is the guy who's purchased BFG with s/n 123.
Everyone on there is in love with their BFG50, although they do give him a bit of static about how it has taken longer than anticipated to design, fabricate, and build the rifles.
The ramp-up time was quite long (look at the older posts on that BBS if you want the details), but now Serbu is cranking them out at a good clip.
I hadn't heard about a belt-fed model, but there is a magazine-fed model that is almost ready for production.
BTW, the Bigger Hammer BBS is a great source for all things related to the .50BMG. There have been many informative discussions about where to get cheap ammo, and the pros/cons of various ammos mfg's and distributors.
Have fun!
http://www.biggerhammer.net/barrett/wwwboard/
They call themselves "Club Serbu", eg, CS#123 is the guy who's purchased BFG with s/n 123.
Everyone on there is in love with their BFG50, although they do give him a bit of static about how it has taken longer than anticipated to design, fabricate, and build the rifles.
The ramp-up time was quite long (look at the older posts on that BBS if you want the details), but now Serbu is cranking them out at a good clip.
I hadn't heard about a belt-fed model, but there is a magazine-fed model that is almost ready for production.
BTW, the Bigger Hammer BBS is a great source for all things related to the .50BMG. There have been many informative discussions about where to get cheap ammo, and the pros/cons of various ammos mfg's and distributors.
Have fun!
Shot the Serbu, nice gun at a decent price, although you'll have to get in line to buy one. They seem very accurate with the right ammo, certainly better than the Barrett.
I recently had the opportunity to observe a Barrett 82, Serbu, AMAC, and Armalite being fired at 500 yards over the course of a days time. 247 rounds total were fired for a total of 21 hits on target. The majority of rounds fired were from the Barretts, with the majority (17) of target strikes going to the Armalite.
Order of accuracy least to best;
4. Barrett
3. AMAC
2. Serbu
1. Armalite
Personally, after having shot all of these, and being a Barrett owner, I'd pay the extra $600.00 and buy the Armalite, it's by far the most accurate, and has a superb recoil system.
I recently had the opportunity to observe a Barrett 82, Serbu, AMAC, and Armalite being fired at 500 yards over the course of a days time. 247 rounds total were fired for a total of 21 hits on target. The majority of rounds fired were from the Barretts, with the majority (17) of target strikes going to the Armalite.
Order of accuracy least to best;
4. Barrett
3. AMAC
2. Serbu
1. Armalite
Personally, after having shot all of these, and being a Barrett owner, I'd pay the extra $600.00 and buy the Armalite, it's by far the most accurate, and has a superb recoil system.
Michael:
Thanks for the good report on the different 50's.
I've heard that the different muzzle designs have dramatic effects on the perceived loudness of the various rifles.
Did you notice that any of the 50's were significantly louder than the others?
How about the perceived recoil?j
BTW, what was the target? The reason I ask is because if only 21 out of 247 rounds hit it, it sounds like either the target was too small, or a lot of people need to spend more time studying their .50BMG ballistics table
Thanks for the good report on the different 50's.
I've heard that the different muzzle designs have dramatic effects on the perceived loudness of the various rifles.
Did you notice that any of the 50's were significantly louder than the others?
How about the perceived recoil?j
BTW, what was the target? The reason I ask is because if only 21 out of 247 rounds hit it, it sounds like either the target was too small, or a lot of people need to spend more time studying their .50BMG ballistics table
Navaho,
Don't get me wrong, the Serbu is a nice firarm, and much lighter than the Armalite. You can carry and shoot the Serbu offhand, the Armalite is a bipod weapon only.
The brake on the Serbu directs gas substantially to the sides, so the appearant noise level is less than all the others, which direct gases to the rear. Recoil is about like shooting a 12 gauge slug gun prone. You can shoot 50 rounds thru this and not have a flinch.
The Barrett has the largest dead area for the shooter, gasses go out to the side about 45 degrees. Recoil is alittle less than the Serbu but the accuracy sucks.
If the barrel ever locks up you'll get a real treat and possibly a sucker at the ER when you go.
The AMAC is by far the loudest with the least effective brake. 20 rounds thru this thing and you might want to take a long break from firing it. It also has the removable bolt, and guns of this type have experienced discharges during loading prior to the bolt being fully engaged. I don't know if the AMAC specifically has had this, but this guy wouldn't risk it; AD's of this nature are instantly fatal if you are lucky.
The Armalite has a really neat brake system, that combined with the 40 plus pound weight almost pulls the rifle forward off the shooter. It also has the least dead area for the shooter.......you'll get backblast on your outside leg when firing if you scoot too far to one side. Your spotter has to be 15-20 feet to the side to survive.
Targets, anything from a 20 inch round T-4 armor plate to IPSC style steel torsos to 10 inch pepper poppers.
One falicy of the 50 cal is that it is wonderfully accurate;
any good 308 will outshoot it to 800 yards. Ammunition is the problem, and all the shooters were using several types of military surplus stuff which is intentionally destabilized to pattern rather than group.
With match grade ammunition the groups would be about 1/4 MOA at any range; with the milsurp stuff the best group was wit hthe Armalite at 4.5 inches at 500 yards.
When the Armalite guys get their loading room geared up I fully expect the gun to shoot into 1/4 MOA at 1500 yards.
The Serbu should be right there with it, I think it's like any other bolt gun, just needs some load development work to be a screamer.
If you go to biggerhammer.net or AR15.com, post for BMG Mike and ask him about the Serbu, he may be loading for his now, and he's a wealth of information as well as an all round great guy. Tell him the TacPro 1000 yard Range Officer says hello.
Hope this information helps.
Don't get me wrong, the Serbu is a nice firarm, and much lighter than the Armalite. You can carry and shoot the Serbu offhand, the Armalite is a bipod weapon only.
The brake on the Serbu directs gas substantially to the sides, so the appearant noise level is less than all the others, which direct gases to the rear. Recoil is about like shooting a 12 gauge slug gun prone. You can shoot 50 rounds thru this and not have a flinch.
The Barrett has the largest dead area for the shooter, gasses go out to the side about 45 degrees. Recoil is alittle less than the Serbu but the accuracy sucks.
If the barrel ever locks up you'll get a real treat and possibly a sucker at the ER when you go.
The AMAC is by far the loudest with the least effective brake. 20 rounds thru this thing and you might want to take a long break from firing it. It also has the removable bolt, and guns of this type have experienced discharges during loading prior to the bolt being fully engaged. I don't know if the AMAC specifically has had this, but this guy wouldn't risk it; AD's of this nature are instantly fatal if you are lucky.
The Armalite has a really neat brake system, that combined with the 40 plus pound weight almost pulls the rifle forward off the shooter. It also has the least dead area for the shooter.......you'll get backblast on your outside leg when firing if you scoot too far to one side. Your spotter has to be 15-20 feet to the side to survive.
Targets, anything from a 20 inch round T-4 armor plate to IPSC style steel torsos to 10 inch pepper poppers.
One falicy of the 50 cal is that it is wonderfully accurate;
any good 308 will outshoot it to 800 yards. Ammunition is the problem, and all the shooters were using several types of military surplus stuff which is intentionally destabilized to pattern rather than group.
With match grade ammunition the groups would be about 1/4 MOA at any range; with the milsurp stuff the best group was wit hthe Armalite at 4.5 inches at 500 yards.
When the Armalite guys get their loading room geared up I fully expect the gun to shoot into 1/4 MOA at 1500 yards.
The Serbu should be right there with it, I think it's like any other bolt gun, just needs some load development work to be a screamer.
If you go to biggerhammer.net or AR15.com, post for BMG Mike and ask him about the Serbu, he may be loading for his now, and he's a wealth of information as well as an all round great guy. Tell him the TacPro 1000 yard Range Officer says hello.
Hope this information helps.
21 hits out of 247 is simply poor shooting. My friend and I each own a Maddi Griffen bolt action and we can and do and regulary hit a 9 steel gong at 600 yards EVERYTIME. IT is the shooter that makes the hit ,not the gun. Every .50 Ive ever seen or shot is cabable of minute of angle accuracy.
As Michael has stated ammo is the key to accuracy. Surplus military ammo although cheap to shoot, wont hold a candle to reloads.
With long range (600+yards) good optics are important. At 600 yards a 9" plate is all but invisble to the naked eye.This is where the difference in scopes become apparent.Plus...even though I can shoot my .50 indefinatly, I have already trashed 2 scopes. The recoil is not the problem as is actually hurts me less than my .300 mag. It seems that all .50 are hard on scopes, I think the muzzle blast may have something to do with it.
As Michael has stated ammo is the key to accuracy. Surplus military ammo although cheap to shoot, wont hold a candle to reloads.
With long range (600+yards) good optics are important. At 600 yards a 9" plate is all but invisble to the naked eye.This is where the difference in scopes become apparent.Plus...even though I can shoot my .50 indefinatly, I have already trashed 2 scopes. The recoil is not the problem as is actually hurts me less than my .300 mag. It seems that all .50 are hard on scopes, I think the muzzle blast may have something to do with it.
.50 BMG scopes
Watchman, you're correct about ammo and accuracy. If you subcribe to Very High Power (or talk with Skip Talbot), the accuracy out of a 50 compares to a match .308, except it can maintain this accuracy at phenomenal distances. Trouble is, loading match ammo for a .50 is even more of an art than doing so for more standard calibers.
Eric Williams (a brilliant research chemist and .50 BMG fan) wrote a good article in VHP a few years back about why .50's eat scopes. It is due to the muzzle brake. A standard rifle recoils to the rear, and basically throws the scope forward. The scopes are built to handle this thrust. A braked .50 has a substantial initial rearward acceleration, but when the gases hit the brake and are expelled to the rear, the rifle is accelerated forward just a couple milliseconds after the initial rearward push. Scopes aren't built for the brake-induced "rearward" push, and the lens get loose. The Mark 3 Leupold (expensive!) scopes will handle this reliably.
Airgun scopes face a similar problem due to the piston movement, but it isn't of the same magnitude. Most .50 shooters will use a Mark 3 scope, or put on a Leupold or Nightforce (with a good guarantee). When the lenses get loose, send them back with a note about using it on a .50, and they apparently brace the lenses for both accelerations.
Watchman, you're correct about ammo and accuracy. If you subcribe to Very High Power (or talk with Skip Talbot), the accuracy out of a 50 compares to a match .308, except it can maintain this accuracy at phenomenal distances. Trouble is, loading match ammo for a .50 is even more of an art than doing so for more standard calibers.
Eric Williams (a brilliant research chemist and .50 BMG fan) wrote a good article in VHP a few years back about why .50's eat scopes. It is due to the muzzle brake. A standard rifle recoils to the rear, and basically throws the scope forward. The scopes are built to handle this thrust. A braked .50 has a substantial initial rearward acceleration, but when the gases hit the brake and are expelled to the rear, the rifle is accelerated forward just a couple milliseconds after the initial rearward push. Scopes aren't built for the brake-induced "rearward" push, and the lens get loose. The Mark 3 Leupold (expensive!) scopes will handle this reliably.
Airgun scopes face a similar problem due to the piston movement, but it isn't of the same magnitude. Most .50 shooters will use a Mark 3 scope, or put on a Leupold or Nightforce (with a good guarantee). When the lenses get loose, send them back with a note about using it on a .50, and they apparently brace the lenses for both accelerations.
Good point about the scope.
One other good .50 BMG scope option is a Tasco,
believe it or not.
A ton of .50 BMG oweners over at the .50 BMG forum
(Bigger Hammer, at http://www.biggerhammer.net/barrett/wwwboard)
have raved about the Tasco SS ("Super Sniper") scope. Go to the above URL and do a search on "Tasco".
So many people at that forum have got this scope that they have actually got a discount arrangement with SWFA. See the details at: http://www.riflescopes.com/specials.html
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BTW, SWFA is an awesome company to deal with. Very friendly, and have the lowest prices on Leupolds that I've ever seen. They have a very nice 1-page ad in "Gun List" that shows every possible combo of options for every possible Leupold scope, with prices! I'd studied the literature from Leupold and thought I knew all the options, but discovered a bunch of stuff that I didn't know about just be reading the SWFA ad.
FYI, SWFA == "SouthWest Fire Arms" (they're in Texas), or SWFA == "See What's Far Away" (since they mainly sell scopes).
One other good .50 BMG scope option is a Tasco,
believe it or not.
A ton of .50 BMG oweners over at the .50 BMG forum
(Bigger Hammer, at http://www.biggerhammer.net/barrett/wwwboard)
have raved about the Tasco SS ("Super Sniper") scope. Go to the above URL and do a search on "Tasco".
So many people at that forum have got this scope that they have actually got a discount arrangement with SWFA. See the details at: http://www.riflescopes.com/specials.html
---
BTW, SWFA is an awesome company to deal with. Very friendly, and have the lowest prices on Leupolds that I've ever seen. They have a very nice 1-page ad in "Gun List" that shows every possible combo of options for every possible Leupold scope, with prices! I'd studied the literature from Leupold and thought I knew all the options, but discovered a bunch of stuff that I didn't know about just be reading the SWFA ad.
FYI, SWFA == "SouthWest Fire Arms" (they're in Texas), or SWFA == "See What's Far Away" (since they mainly sell scopes).