Senate Passes Gun Control Amidst Protection For Gun Makers

Trip20

New member
A note I received from Gun Owners of America email news letter:

Friday evening, July 29, 2005


The U.S. Senate passed legislation (S. 397) protecting the gun
industry from frivolous lawsuits by a vote of 65-31 this afternoon.

It should have been a joyous occasion for the entire gun community.
But just when it seemed that the majority party was about to deal a
knockout blow, the Republican leadership dropped their gloves and
allowed anti-gun Democrats to land a hard uppercut on the chin.

As a result of that lack of resolve, America will be saddled with
mandatory trigger locks unless the House of Representatives acts in
a more responsible manner.

True, the underlying bill is significant legislation, supported by
GOA, which will help the firearms industry defend itself from the
slew of frivolous lawsuits you've been hearing about for years.
It's not great protection, but it's a nice first step.

However, "nice first step" should never be an excuse for the passage
of more gun control. By the way, you will no doubt be reading news
reports touting the bill as a great victory for gun owners, while
dismissing the trigger lock amendment as "minor." Wrong, and more
on that later.

But first: how did this thing blow up in our faces?


IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN GOOD, THEN IT WENT BAD

Remember that Gun Owners of America had asked its members and
activists to lobby Majority Leader Bill Frist to use whatever means
possible to block anti-gun amendments? At first, his office had
been telling us this couldn't be done.

Frist's office told us there was no Senate rule allowing the
majority party to block bad amendments.

But after GOA members and activists applied the heat, Frist took
another look. He then used parliamentary rules to "fill the
amendment tree," which is exactly what we asked him to do. "Filling
the amendment tree" is a technical term which explains how the
majority party can offer amendments in such a way as to block the
minority party from offering other amendments.

So far so good. But then... Frist blinked. You see, there were a
handful of "moderate" Democrats, mainly from pro-gun states, who had
cosponsored the original bill -- enough to make the measure
filibuster-proof. Fearing that the other side would get those guys
to bolt from the bill, Frist caved and allowed people like decidedly
anti-gun Senator Herb Kohl to offer amendments.

Frist should have stood firm and let any rats jumping ship go home
and explain to their constituents why they didn't support needed
tort reform.

But he did not, and the trigger lock amendment passed. Those who
think it's no big deal will tell you that even though the provision
requires gun dealers to include the sale of a "lock-up-your-safety"
device with every handgun sold, there are no penalties for the gun
owner if he or she does not use the trigger lock. Right. NOT YET.

Remember seat belts? First they had to be installed in every new
car sold. Then, it became mandatory that you wear them.
You can
almost hear the debate in the next Congress: "It does no good to
provide trigger locking devices if gun owners aren't required to use
them. We need to punish any gun owner who fails to lock up his or
her handgun!"

Remember also that some us don't like a "tax" on the price of our
next gun, which we have to pay to get a piece of equipment we know
can endanger our lives should we install it.


IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE

At least your hard work convinced Frist to fill the tree in the
first place. Otherwise, any anti-gun Senator could have added
anything including the word "firearm" and who knows what we would
have ended up with. It's an utter shame that Frist lost his nerve
right when total victory was in our grasp.

Even worse, perhaps, 70 Senators went along with the trigger lock
amendment when they could just as easily have voted "No" and passed
a clean bill thereafter. Were your Senators among those who need to
be spanked for toying with your rights? Go to
http://www.gunowners.org/cgv.htm for a complete run-down of the
trigger locks vote.


WHAT HAPPENS NEXT

The bill now moves to the House. Some pro-gun spokesmen have been
promising that the trigger lock amendment can be stripped out in a
conference committee. As mentioned in a previous alert, this is a
dangerous strategy which frequently does NOT work -- such as when we
got stuck with the Feinstein semi-auto ban in 1993-94 and the
Incumbent Protection Act in 2002.

Actually, a clean bill already exists in the House. Why not pass
that one?
Congress is in recess during August. But the back-room deals are
certain to continue inside the Beltway.

To counter those expected compromises, GOA will need your help at
specific times over the remainder of the summer. Please stay
tuned... gun owners will need to pressure their Representatives with
one simple message: a vote for ANY bill, should it contain new gun
control, is NOT something we're prepared to swallow without a fight.


*Edited to bold/red comment above.
 
No free lunch.

It is sad, but in politics (like economics) there is no such thing as a free lunch.

I will hope for the best in the House comittee, and will buy trigger locks if I have to. Once they become mandatory for use, I will have to start a policy of non-compliance.

I really do have faith that one day either this nonsense will stop on it's own, or real Americans will come together to stop it.

The manufacturer protection legislation is still a big win. Why? Because as long as guns are made, people will buy them. And, every new gun is one more the anti's have to try and take away.
 
"Uppercut to the chin?"

Give me a freakin' break, what utterly ridiculous hyperbole!!

The amendments which destroyed last year's attempt to pass this legislation were "uppercuts to the chin," "kidney punches," and "knockout blows."

Requiring the sale of a trigger lock, which can legally be used as a fishing sinker by the purchaser, does not qualify for a boxing metaphor. It is certainly unfortunate that the Senate couldn't pass a clean bill, but really, "uppercut?" Come on.
 
I believe he's referring to the manner in which the gun-control amendment was allowed to become attached to the bill.... not necessarily to the "lock" itself being the upper cut...

I was hoping you'd be more outraged by the article itself, than the use of metaphor, however proper... :eek:
 
I'm with Trip20 on the interpretation. That said, this is certainly not the first time an issue has made two steps forward and one step backward; it is the way many things get done in Congress. They are concessions and appeasements.
 
mvpel said:
Requiring the sale of a trigger lock, which can legally be used as a fishing sinker by the purchaser, does not qualify for a boxing metaphor.

The article addresses your lax attitude towards something which in and of itself seems small (the lock)... but is actually one small step towards something much uglier:

Remember seat belts? First they had to be installed in every new car sold. Then, it became mandatory that you wear them. You can almost hear the debate in the next Congress: "It does no good to provide trigger locking devices if gun owners aren't required to use them. We need to punish any gun owner who fails to lock up his or her handgun!"
 
So is the trigger lock requirement worth another year of abuse of gun manufacturers by craven trial lawyers seeking their bankruptcy, just because of what might happen years in the future?

I don't think so, personally. I'd have rather seen the facts instead of "for the children" BS prevail on the Senate floor, such as the miniscule and falling rate of accidental firearm deaths among children, but that's Democrat emotionalism for ya.
 
mvpel said:
So is the trigger lock requirement worth another year of abuse of gun manufacturers by craven trial lawyers seeking their bankruptcy, just because of what might happen years in the future?

I see your point. The only thing I'm afraid of is the "we'll give up this in order to get that" thought process might lead to us one day thinking "how in the hell did we get to this point???", only to look back and realize we let it happen incrementally with small amendments or what have you.

Definitely more of a win than loss for the gun community at this point - just hoping it's not a step in the direction of the seatbelt comparison. I mean hell, they're already setting up the "papers please" check-points in the name of "public safety for seatbelt use" so often discussed on this board. Now, imagine the BATF making random house-calls to inspect firearm lock use.
 
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I see your point. The only thing I'm afraid of is the "we'll give up this in order to get that" thought process might lead to us one day thinking "how in the hell did we get to this point???", only to look back and realize we let it happen incrementally with small amendments or what have you.
Actually, that's precisely how we got to where we are today, and "incrementally" is how we're going to have to recover our rights.

Gun rights in this nation have been under seige from all corners for decades, and S.397 was a critically important piece of legislation to fight one very sharp prong of a relentless attack that seeks to destroy the American firearms industry.

If it became necessary, thanks to Senator Frist's ignorance of parliamentary procedure, to acquiesce to a minimalist amendment that has essentially been the status quo for the past four years thanks to California's trigger-lock requirement (an amendment that Senator Kohl probably offered on behalf of those holding his leash at Master Lock Corporation) in order to get this vital bill through, then I'm not going to cry in my beer and lament the lack of a perfect world where there are no rent-seeking politicians willing to twist statistics and appeal to emotion in order to line the pockets of their contributors.

I'm going to simply breathe a sigh of relief that there's still an opportunity to strike this amendment in conference, and eagerly anticipate the lifting of the litigation burden that has been grinding down our nation's gun makers for so long.
 
mvpel said:
Actually, that's precisely how we got to where we are today
So... Uh... :confused:

lol... Enjoy your sigh of relief.

That's exactly the kind of complacency the anti-gun crowd wants. As they see this contentment become more common place, expect to see more invasive amendments attached to legislation.

When the next "critically important piece of legislation" passes, attached to which is another parasite, like say, micro-stamping on all ammunition...

Ah, what's the use?
Breath easy, friend.
 
This piece of legislation is an increment in our direction, not theirs.

Had it passed last year, with the AWB renewal and the christmas tree of other anti-gun amendments, it would have been a big increment in their direction.

Micro-stamping all ammo is not a minor parasite, it's a total overhaul of the entire ammunition industry.
 
mvpel said:
Micro-stamping all ammo is not a minor parasite, it's a total overhaul of the entire ammunition industry.

Damn right it is. ;)

Hopefully you see my point, if not, I tried.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong... haven't trigger locks been required for some time for sales of firearms? I've probably bought 25 guns in the last 5 years from dealers and wholesalers and every one of them came with either a trigger lock or ILS system. I have a whole drawer full of locks. :rolleyes:

Remember also that some us don't like a "tax" on the price of our
Give me a break. I guess the author has never heard of the Pittman-Robertson tax which is currently 11% on all firearms, ammo, and sporting goods. The trigger locks I've gotten probably cost between a dime and a dollar depending on where they were from.

Remember seat belts? First they had to be installed in every new
car sold. Then, it became mandatory that you wear them. You can
almost hear the debate in the next Congress: "It does no good to
provide trigger locking devices if gun owners aren't required to use
them. We need to punish any gun owner who fails to lock up his or
her handgun!"

The GOA must borrow their writers from 'The Onion' :rolleyes:
 
Has anybody actually read Sec.5? This is the "Child Safety Lock Act of 2005."
SEC. 5. CHILD SAFETY LOCKS.
(a) SHORT TITLE- This section may be cited as the `Child Safety Lock Act of 2005'.
. (b) PURPOSES- The purposes of this section are--
.. (1) to promote the safe storage and use of handguns by consumers;
.. (2) to prevent unauthorized persons from gaining access to or use of a handgun, including children who may not be in possession of a handgun; and
.. (3) to avoid hindering industry from supplying firearms to law abiding citizens for all lawful purposes, including hunting, self-defense, collecting, and competitive or recreational shooting.
. (c) FIREARMS SAFETY-
.. (1) MANDATORY TRANSFER OF SECURE GUN STORAGE OR SAFETY DEVICE- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting at the end the following:
... `(z) SECURE GUN STORAGE OR SAFETY DEVICE-
.... `(1) IN GENERAL- Except as provided under paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer any handgun to any person other than any person licensed under this chapter, unless the transferee is provided with a secure gun storage or safety device (as defined in section 921(a)(34)) for that handgun.
.... `(2) EXCEPTIONS- Paragraph (1) shall not apply to--
..... `(A)(i) the manufacture for, transfer to, or possession by, the United States, a department or agency of the United States, a State, or a department, agency, or political subdivision of a State, of a handgun; or
...... `(ii) the transfer to, or possession by, a law enforcement officer employed by an entity referred to in clause (i) of a handgun for law enforcement purposes (whether on or off duty); or
..... `(B) the transfer to, or possession by, a rail police officer employed by a rail carrier and certified or commissioned as a police officer under the laws of a State of a handgun for purposes of law enforcement (whether on or off duty);
..... `(C) the transfer to any person of a handgun listed as a curio or relic by the Secretary pursuant to section 921(a)(13); or
..... `(D) the transfer to any person of a handgun for which a secure gun storage or safety device is temporarily unavailable for the reasons described in the exceptions stated in section 923(e), if the licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer delivers to the transferee within 10 calendar days from the date of the delivery of the handgun to the transferee a secure gun storage or safety device for the handgun.
.... `(3) LIABILITY FOR USE-
..... `(A) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a person who has lawful possession and control of a handgun, and who uses a secure gun storage or safety device with the handgun, shall be entitled to immunity from a qualified civil liability action.
..... `(B) PROSPECTIVE ACTIONS- A qualified civil liability action may not be brought in any Federal or State court.
..... `(C) DEFINED TERM- As used in this paragraph, the term `qualified civil liability action'--
...... `(i) means a civil action brought by any person against a person described in subparagraph (A) for damages resulting from the criminal or unlawful misuse of the handgun by a third party, if--
....... `(I) the handgun was accessed by another person who did not have the permission or authorization of the person having lawful possession and control of the handgun to have access to it; and
....... `(II) at the time. access was gained by the person not so authorized, the handgun had been made inoperable by use of a secure gun storage or safety device; and
..... `(ii) shall not include an action brought against the person having lawful possession and control of the handgun for negligent entrustment or negligence per se.'.
.... (2) CIVIL PENALTIES- Section 924 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--
..... (A) in subsection (a)(1), by striking `or (f)' and inserting `(f), or (p)'; and
..... (B) by adding at the end the following:
...... `(p) PENALTIES RELATING TO SECURE GUN STORAGE OR SAFETY DEVICE-
.. `(1) IN GENERAL-
... `(A) SUSPENSION OR REVOCATION OF LICENSE; CIVIL PENALTIES- With respect to each violation of section 922(z)(1) by a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer, the Secretary may, after notice and opportunity for hearing--
.... `(i) suspend for not more than 6 months, or revoke, the license issued to the licensee under this chapter that was used to conduct the firearms transfer; or
.... `(ii) subject the licensee to a civil penalty in an amount equal to not more than $2,500.
.. `(B) REVIEW- An action of the Secretary under this paragraph may be reviewed only as provided under section 923(f).
... `(2) ADMINISTRATIVE REMEDIES- The suspension or revocation of a license or the imposition of a civil penalty under paragraph (1) shall not preclude any administrative remedy that is otherwise available to the Secretary.'.
. (3) LIABILITY; EVIDENCE-
.. (A) LIABILITY- Nothing in this section shall be construed to--
... (i) create a cause of action against any Federal firearms licensee or any other person for any civil liability; or
... (ii) establish any standard of care.
.. (B) EVIDENCE- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, evidence regarding compliance or noncompliance with the amendments made by this section shall not be admissible as evidence in any proceeding of any court, agency, board, or other entity, except with respect to an action relating to section 922(z) of title 18, United States Code, as added by this subsection.
.. (C) RULE OF CONSTRUCTION- Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to bar a governmental action to impose a penalty under section 924(p) of title 18, United States Code, for a failure to comply with section 922(z) of that title.
. (d) EFFECTIVE DATE- This section and the amendments made by this section shall take effect 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act.
What this does is to force all used handguns to be sold, by a FFL, to have a "safety lock." No big deal in and of itself, since all new handguns already come with a safety lock, provided by the manufacturer.

Yes, it penalizes a FFL holder for non-compliance, but this is also offset by the protections against further civil liability. And that liability extends to you, the purchaser, should your firearm fall into the hands (stolen) of an evil doer (see the above parts that I highlighted). To qualify for the immunity, all you will need to provide is proof that the gun was equiped with a safety device or in its safe.

And yes, there are people that keep their guns under lock and key all the time. Guns still get stolen and the prior owners still get sued because of the perceived threat of just owning a gun. And some of these cases have been won by the plaintiffs. This will protect the owner. This amendment just isn't that bad, in and of itself.

Of course, all of this presupposes that the final bill presented to Bush resembles the senate version. And this is where you need to get worried. The conference committee can strip this stuff out, it could leave it in, or it could actually add more onerous amendments to the bill.

What is really needed is to find out who all will be on this committee and FAX or snail mail (emails are ignored) each member to submit only the House version of the bill.

Why, you ask?

The Senate version is not constitutionally adequate, whereas the house bill (H.B.800.RH) is. The Senate version does not rely upon the Commerce Clause for its justification like the House Bill does.

I fear the courts will strike down the senate version because its justification does not match the rest of Sec. 922 Title 18, which is the Commerce Clause.

At the least, those portions of the conference Bill must include those commerce clause portions of the House Bill.
 
I have to say that the author of the article has taken hyperbole lessons from Ted Kennedy. Drunken ranting.

California has been living with the trigger lock for a while. I would be irritated on paying for something I don't use. Felt good that when I bought my shotgun the dealer gave me a CA approved cable lock (real cheapo) that had been given to him for distribution. If the antis pay for it, it's okay with me.
 
I wonder what the manufacturers think of the bill? You know, the guys shelling out the bucks to fight the BS suit's.
 
Gun Locks.

I use trigger locks or lock in cases most all of the firearms I own that I'm not carrying, even in the safe. I do it by choice.

The key here is that, locks or not, the manufacturers are protected. Why is this important?

1) more new guns mean more the anti's have to try and take away.
2) manufacturers stay open, people don't lose jobs.
3) maufacturers can now turn their efforts back to providing a quality product, not keeping lawyers on retainer.
4) MOST IMPORTANT- It will mean that people are now required to take responsibility for their actions.

I hope that this type of legislation will extend to other industries as well, particulary auto, tools/equipment, and fast food.

Heck, if we stopped frivolous lawsuits in those areas, we may just put most of the scumbag lawyers out of business. (NO OFFENSE to non-scumbag lawyers) :D
 
When we get to the point of trigger locks becomiong mandatory (which I think would be a lot harder for congress to require, without some interstate movement), I will worry.

The gov't hs been handing out free trigger locks for years now. All the FFL has to do is give one with the gun. Costs nothing, the locks are already being made.
 
I am with Jefvnk and the others. Locks are already distributed with guns. At the store I used to work at there was a box at the door and anyone could just take one or leave one as they saw fit. It was and is a non-issue. And it certainly was well worth the price of ending ruinous lawsuits. If we have to "compromise" like this on every issue count me in.
For all those screaming about the slippery slope: w'll burn that bridge when we come to it. But for now why make an issue out of something that isnt even on the table.
But for a gun org to engage in such hyperbole to me calls into question its judgement and credentials to represent gun owners. It does a disservice to gun owners.
 
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