Senate Gun Control actions starting Monday

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mehavey

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Word has it that Schumer is going to try and use the House-passed plastic gun bill to start the ball rolling in the Senate to add/amend any number of broaderadditional provisions.

I'n not seeing any of this on the NRA/ILA site, so does anyone else have additional inside information as to what particular items are in the democrat game plan?
 
Schumer has been making noise about it. I don't doubt they'll try.

What's worse is that this is an easything to scare moderates with. I mean, who wouldn't want to ban plastic guns that people can sneak on planes in this post-911 world? :rolleyes:

Sometimes the rhetoric is more powerful than facts in public consciousness. If you have a Senator with an even mediocre record on the 2A, get in touch before he leaves for the holidays. This will be a hard one to fight.
 
But if Schumer does try to piggyback some other provisions on the bill, it could conceivably kill it entirely.
 
What exactly is this ban? I know of no gun that is made or is even feasibly buildable that doesn't have enough metal in it to be detectable. One could argue the technology is there, but the cost would be prohibitive and reliability would be questionable at best.
 
The problem isn't that there is an undectable gun (because outside of Hollywood, there isn't), the problem is that anti gun zealots, both in public office and out, THINK there is an undetectable gun.

And rather than pass a law about how well a metal detector has to work, they pass a law forbidding a gun that does not exist. Except they have to be able to define something that does not exist, in order to make a law about it.

SO, we have people who know NOTHING about it, (other than the stock "gun = bad") writing a law about what it can, and cannot be.

And none of them even bothers to think about "undetectable ammunition" :eek:
 
The problem isn't that there is an undectable gun (because outside of Hollywood, there isn't), the problem is that anti gun zealots, both in public office and out, THINK there is an undetectable gun.
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Actually, it's a bit different now. 3D printers may change the landscape. We've seen (semi) working prototypes of guns made almost entirely of plastic. Will they work well or for long? No.

But, as some will say, they just have to work once. This is a really convenient point for the antis to hammer on, and it's a hard one for us to rebut.
 
It's easy to rebut - there is no law against a law abiding person who is not a prohibited possessor from building a firearm for themselves, done all the time with 80% lowers and such. The thing that sticks in their craw is this one requires very little skill, and is done over the internet. That plastic single shot pistol was a modern Liberator, at best, but it panics them, not realizing much more effective firearms can already be home built by people of moderate skill and semi-decent tools. The "pistol" in question was even designed to use the required amount of steel by an insert for a block of it.
it comes down to unreasonable fear and emotionalism, which is difficult to counter with logic, because they won't listen to reality.
 
it comes down to unreasonable fear and emotionalism, which is difficult to counter with logic, because they won't listen to reality.
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Which pretty much fits every gun control measure in the past 100+ years...

3D printers are the new bugbear in the woods, but I don't think the landscape has changed as much as the ability to get around in it has.

with one of these, you don't have to be (or hire) a skilled machinist, you just have to have and run the program.

I can, right off the top of my head, think of several things (not necessarily practical or even workable, but that should be no barrier to our politicians, based on past performance...) that could have an effect on the "danger" of "undetectable" guns..

Better metal detectors....

requiring every 3D printer to send a picture/file of what it makes to some central govt agency computer....

Requiring all passengers to travel nude....

passing a law that says killing someone is a bad thing....

comprehensive background checks before allowing passengers to board public transportation...

comprehensive background checks before allowing ...purchase of a 3D printer,

not allowing people to possess fire, because it burns....

I think you get the picture...

The risk is in the details of whatever law or regulations they craft to deal with the danger of the undetectable gun. What features they use to define it. Remember the fine things the GCA 68 did for us, defining acceptable guns by a point system designed by some bureaucrat.

I hear some moron is wanting to ban plastic magazines, because (supposedly) they are "undetectable". Amazing....:rolleyes:
 
But, as some will say, they just have to work once. This is a really convenient point for the antis to hammer on, and it's a hard one for us to rebut.
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Add to that the problem with matching the bullet to the gun as there is no rifling. Having a weapon that cant be matched to a bullet only adds to the argument for the oposition

However as far as life of a plastic barrel there are ways to extend it with the right coating that reduces friction, reduces heat and is hard. It is only a matter of time before someone figures a way to coat a barrel like coating cast bullets. Surely this will add to the negative profile of the 3D printed gun. At least it seems very doable. With it being made capable of firing more than one round, a design to hold and use a magazine would be right around the corner, increasing the firepower of the weapon substantially.

In no way do I stand against the right to print a firearm, but I do see it taking a course that will ultimately lead to it's opposition being strengthened and to it's demise from a legal standpoint. I also see the 3D printed gun (looking forward ) in the "Choose your battles" category in a sense that there are way to many fights taking place to pour large amounts of time, energy, and money into and that could be better served on a more winnable playing field.

I admit that if you can overcome the idea that the gun would be hard to detect that the chance at winning this battle becomes more feasible. But looking at now and ahead I don't see a reasonable way to detect it. Without that, it is likely not a winnable fight.

As the old saying goes "it is what it is" and "it doesn't look good for the home team". That's the way I see this going from my front porch.
 
this whole thing is just an attempt to circumvent the constitution and infringe on our rights. In all future elections all gun owners have to get out and vote. Vote these people out of office. They took an oath to protect the constitution and they are attempting in every way to infringe on it. Every time we turn around they have a new approach to gun control. It has to be stopped !
 
44 AMP said:
The problem isn't that there is an undectable gun (because outside of Hollywood, there isn't), the problem is that anti gun zealots, both in public office and out, THINK there is an undetectable gun.

And rather than pass a law about how well a metal detector has to work, they pass a law forbidding a gun that does not exist. Except they have to be able to define something that does not exist, in order to make a law about it.

SO, we have people who know NOTHING about it, (other than the stock "gun = bad") writing a law about what it can, and cannot be.

And none of them even bothers to think about "undetectable ammunition"
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No, that's not the problem, either.

The problem is that they can float a ridiculous bill about banning a gun or technology that everyone knows doesn't exist -- and people will then tend to ignore the bill because it "doesn't affect us."

But then they tack on amendment after amendment that DO affect us, but the bill is flying under the radar in stealth mode because "it doesn't affect us."

BOOM! Where did that come from?
 
Actually, it's a bit different now. 3D printers may change the landscape. We've seen (semi) working prototypes of guns made almost entirely of plastic. Will they work well or for long? No.
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And it's even more confusing than this. As someone who used to work for TSA, and has literally 1000's of hours logged looking at the screen of an X-Ray machine, the idea of an undetectable gun is absolutely ludicrous. Even one that is made mostly out of plastic. I'm sure I'm not supposed to say much about what the X-Ray actually shows, but keep in mind that the machines don't care what the objects are made of...only their density. ABS/PVC plastic, for example, shows up rather well. Throw a "nail" firing pin and actual ammo (which is incredibly obvious) and these 3D printed firearms aren't even close to undetectable.

Make no mistake, this law is just more gun control masquerading as public safety legislation. It won't actually make our lives any safer, but will be one step closer to the gun banner's ultimate goal.
 
The problem is that they can float a ridiculous bill about banning a gun or technology that everyone knows doesn't exist -- and people will then tend to ignore the bill because it "doesn't affect us."

But then they tack on amendment after amendment that DO affect us, but the bill is flying under the radar in stealth mode because "it doesn't affect us."

BOOM! Where did that come from?
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Scary, huh?



Cnon
 
Not sure if this has been reported, but the renewal of the law went through, but without the additional amendments. Though I think the original law was a bit of an overreach, at least common sense partially won the day.
 
Not sure if this has been reported, but the renewal of the law went through, but without the additional amendments. Though I think the original law was a bit of an overreach, at least common sense partially won the day.
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That's true.


Link



Cnon
 
Garek said:
I'm sure I'm not supposed to say much about what the X-Ray actually shows, but keep in mind that the machines don't care what the objects are made of...only their density. ABS/PVC plastic, for example, shows up rather well
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At about 1/2 the airports, the public can fully view the screens. Further, there are youtube videos that give pretty good details on what to look for and how things look, and some of the manufacturers have videos on their sites showing how great their systems are. A person with mal-intent and half a brain could probably figure out how to effectively conceal such a weapon from an X-Ray operator.

I worked with a couple of USG guys decades ago that were expert at concealment, and have no reason to believe the art has lapsed or others haven't acquired the same or better skills.

A plastic gun isn't going to make that big a difference when compared to metal guns.
 
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At about 1/2 the airports, the public can fully view the screens. Further, there are youtube videos that give pretty good details on what to look for and how things look, and some of the manufacturers have videos on their sites showing how great their systems are. A person with mal-intent and half a brain could probably figure out how to effectively conceal such a weapon from an X-Ray operator.
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If you want to get technical, you could probably include just about every gun made into an "undetectable" firearm. Every airport has training kits that have a bunch of stuff (use your imagination of what these kits could contain) that allow the screeners at the airport to put together bags will all sorts of bad stuff. A little imagination is all it takes to make practically anything (including guns) undetectable. For the record, the gun kits we had, had real guns that were made non-functioning. Those kits made me proficient at stripping a 1911 before I even owned one. :p
 
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