Senate Bill introduced to ban 9mm ammo

H

Hal

New member
http://thomas.loc.gov
Search for "ammunition" as the keyword. The Violent Crime Act calls for a ban on 9mm ammunition. Other provisions call for the ban of all jacketed hollow point handgun ammunition so that us 1911 fans are also included in the fun(?)(The Destructive Ammunition Phrohibition Act).
 
I really don't think it will pass, there would be such a outrage! The 9mm is such a widly used cartridge, if it did pass what will be next the .45acp 10mm or even the.22lr! I just don't think the bill will pass.

What is the basis of out-lawing it?

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Justice for one,Justice for all.
 
Oh geez - Hal is right. Well, it may not pass, but it is goofy. And, even more expansive. Here's a direct link - http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c106:1:./temp/~c106nn0pVY:: . Here's the heading:

"106th CONGRESS
1st Session
S. 156

To amend chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, to prohibit the manufacture, transfer, or importation of .25 caliber and .32 caliber and 9 millimeter ammunition .

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

January 19, 1999
Mr. MOYNIHAN introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary ..."

Daniel Patrick Moynihan, a Democrat, is up for reelection in November 2000 in the People's Republic of New York.


[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited 01-29-99).]
 
Can you imagine how much 9mm ammo that proposal sold already!?

Besides, I also wonder how many people will start shopping for ammo on the corpses of the esteemed Senator's bodyguards...

WOnder where these bright folks get the half-measure ideas. I know that murder and assualt are against the law...but they just need to outlaw dying and us, law-abiding, will live forever....
 
It isn't only a proposal to ban the sale of 9mm ammo. It is a proposal to also raise the tax on existiong 9mm ammo by 10,000 percent (yep 10 thousand). The Violent Crime Act is already law. It has been since 1994. These are proposed changes to an existing law. With so much attention being diverted to the impeachment trial, there is no way to be sure this crap can't pass. And yes even .22 lr ammunition falls under the one proposal of handgun ammunition of less than a certain length. Follow the above link and read the chilling facts. Read them all, and take nothing for granted.
 
Looks like an economic squeeze to me. Ban or prohibitively tax the most popular and available handgun ammo. If it sails, then go after the rest of ammo later.
This proposal is racist, biased against lower income folks and plain tyrannical.

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<i><b>"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"</i></b>
 
At the expense of sounding racist, isn't there anyone capable of scalping anymore? Humor set aside, the seige we endure will continue until we either become like Vermont where the 2nd Amendment is written into their state constitution or marched down the road towards a state of benevolent tyranny.

[This message has been edited by 4V50 Gary (edited 01-30-99).]
 
Flyerm14:Senator Moynihan is against firearms of any kind, he needs no other reason to seek such bans. He is one of those Democarts that is trying to throw as much $hit aginst the wall just to see how much can stick.
Rat: If the ban on sales passes, the next step is to make possession illegal. That way even if you buy now to avoid a possible ban or tax, it would do no good.
DC & Gary: My first impression was also that the ban seems racist. I would consider a ban on expanding ammunition as a basis for a civil liberties action. The facts supporting the over penetration of non expanding ammunition and the potential danger to innocent bystanders from such a round in an urban setting seem to be ignored here. Also forcing the user of, say a Glock which the mfg clearly states to not use lead ammo in, by government mandate makes for an interesting thought. Can the government be held liable for forcing someone to use a product in violation of a mfg safety guidelines?

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A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined;
George Washington Jan 8,1790--There can be no doubt about the Second Amendment.
 
Hal..

My understanding is that the government is immune from most lawsuits. That said, who knows these days? The legal system seems to be a total crap shoot and horribly in need of reform. I do believe that if enough people, lawyers and groups sued the Feds over a particular issue and were determined to not let it go....the Feds would cave.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Ammo bans are nothing new. If they can't get rid of the guns, they go for the ammo. However, if they don't have a nifty catch phrase such as "Cop Killer" most of these attempts fall by the wayside. Ammo is too boring for non-shooters. Therefore the antis can't get that public outrage thing going that they need to pull these things off.

DC,
You're absolutly right about such bans being racist. HCI's next big push is going to be "Saturday night specials" again. (See, there goes the catch phrase again) While most of us view these guns a junk, they are all good, honest low income families (read Black) can afford. By using this tactic the anti-gun crowd turns self defense into both a racial and an economoic issue as only the well to do white folks are allowed to defend themselves. Its all part of the divide and conquer stratagy. If they can get the good, decent and honest people of this nation fighting among ourselfs, they can sneak their agenda past us while we're busy with bigger problems. Make you sick to think how low these people will sink.
 
Grayfox..

Yep its happening right now in Kalifornia. The City of Santa Barbara is passing a law banning "SN specials". Supposedly, Gov. Davis is considering a state wide ban as well.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
In ye olde days, the Sovereign could do no wrong and one could not seek redress against either the Sovereign nor his agents. Modernly both the Federal and the State governments have consented to be named in a tort action. Turning to the issue of ammunition which goes against the mfg's warnings, it would probably be difficult to prevail on the basis of negligence. The negligence would be the user and not the government for not using "safe" ammunition. Witness the imposition of steel shot which rendered millons of shotguns obsolete overnight. There may be another avenue of approach (perhaps such legislation is not within the enumerated powers of Congress; especially since the Supreme Court has just started to curtail the liberal application of Congress' de facto police powers under the Commerce Clause), and this is where Stephen Halbrook comes in and I step out.

Vigilantibus et not dormientibus jura subveniunt

[This message has been edited by 4V50 Gary (edited 01-30-99).]

[This message has been edited by 4V50 Gary (edited 01-31-99).]
 
On SNS guns...I saw a Lorcin .22 at the range last night. It worked. It was small, rather sensibly engineered gun that worked. The owner said he's fired about twenty bricks of .22 through it with no malfunctions except for some cheap, defectice .22 (had two ogf those myself last night...they fired whenre-struck) My GF's PPK/s also qualifies as junk gun under some definitions I have seen.

My guess it that there will be no wide-spread fighting. Some disobedience now and then and move towards 45 LC or 44 but not nothing that would make the bastards sit up and take notice.

Hope life proves me wrong.
 
DC: Some government agencies and agents can be sued, but in order to sue them they must first grant permission for a suit to be filed. In reading the proposal The Center for Disease Control has a large involvement. If I were a suing kind I would consider targeting them. The ammo ban proposal has little chance to succeed, it is just one of those sneaky things thrown in to keep everbody aware of what is going on. Sometimes these absurd measures pass in moments of lack of reason.(Switchblade laws, putting a rifle stock on a handgun, labeling anything over 1/2 " a dangerous ordanence,,etc).

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A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined;
George Washington Jan 8,1790--There can be no doubt about the Second Amendment.
 
I wouldn't take this so lightly. Ammunition bans are a hey part of the HCI strategy. Hollow points have been outlawed in the People's Republic of New Jersey for as long as I can remember.

They need only squeeze one sample ban thru. Next they're quoting statistics of the number of lives saved and the fact that the murder rate has gone down due to the ban (State of the Union Address).

Finally, I've long been concerned with a "public health tax" on ammunition, similar to the profits the government makes on tobacco. These are popular approaches in the "Age of the Common Man".
Rich
 
I'm not taking this lightly, but, to be honest, I don't have the depth of firearms experience many of you possess. Some guys at my gun shop commented that 'Moynihan does this every few years ...'. True? Pertinent? I don't know.
 
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