Semi-Custom and Custom 1911s: Why?

T

TunnelRat

New member
This isn’t a rant on my part or even an attempt at being facetious. If you purchased a semi-custom or custom 1911, why did you do it? What was it over production pistols that you felt you were getting or just plain wanted? I have been looking at used 1911s lately and my price bracket falls into higher end production pistols or used custom pistols. I’m trying to decide if I want to pay the extra and I’m curious what others think.

Regards,
TR


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I have said this many, many, many times....

Until you actually own a higher end 1911, you will never "get it"

After owning two Ed Browns, a $3k Springer Custom Shop 1911, and even 2 Dan Wesson Valors, I just can't buy a standard production 1911s anymore. The fit and finish on the cheaper ones just don't compare...

Either the trigger sucks, or the thumb safety sucks, or something else sucks on the cheaper ones...

There have been countless threads on all the gun forums for over a decade... People with cheaper 1911s, complaining that their guns are just as good as the high end ones.... Some people get down right nasty about it too.

IF you can afford it, then it is worth it. But, I would suggest to own some cheaper 1911s at first. So, you know what you like and what you don't like. And, you will appreciate it much more. If your first 1911 is a $2-$3k model, you won't even know what it is that ya have.
 
Ok, I'll bite, but please don't beat me up too much. A few years ago I had the ability to buy a new Wilson 1911 which was something I had long lusted after.

Now, not for a minute will I try to convince anyone that it is three or four times better than the Colt 1911 I purchased along the same time. It also isn't something I purchased to try and impress anyone as matter of fact few people know I have it or what it cost.

Having said all of that it has to be the finest firearm I own. The craftsmanship is obvious just holding the gun and even more so when shooting as it is very accurate. There are no rattles and the thing disassembly and re-assembly like a dream as everything just "fits right". It even feels better in my hand, but I guess that is based more on emotion than anything else.

I'm the kind of person that wears a mechanical Swiss watch, writes with a fountain pen and loves old cars. I've worked for years as a Manufacturing Engineer and just love finely crafted mechanical objects and the Wilson Combat firearms fit that bill.
 
All I'll add to this is the 3-5K 1911A1 is not going to make the average shooter shoot any better that they would shoot a $700 one.
 
I’m trying to decide if I want to pay the extra and I’m curious what others think.
Click to expand...
Did you ever try one?
I did - once.
A guy I saw a lot at the range had his Colt Gold Cup with him one day.
It had, in addition to being a Gold Cup - over a thousand $ worth of custom work done on it.

He let me try it.

It was - amazing.

It was incredible in my hands & even more so in his - since it was built for him.

I have a Colt Custom Carry Commander - it's part of a special run Colt did back in 1998/99 - where they ran it through the custom shop for some minor work.
It is a pure pleasure to shoot. I'll have to dig it out of the safe & shoot it more often.
I don't think it's been shot in 15 years.
 
So a couple notes from me:

Thanks for all the feedback so far.

I’ve owned two S&W 1911s, a Colt, a Springfield Armory, and I’ve shot my share of others at the lower ends such as Auto Ordnance and Rock Island.

I am well aware it won’t make me a better shooter.

I have multiple Glocks and even a KKM barrel. I like Glocks, I plan to carry my Glocks.

This is sort of just because I’m curious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I have owned a few 1911s. The Wilson CQB, Ed Brown Special Forces, Ed Brown Kobra Carry, Mars Armament THUG Colt 1911, Guncrafter No Name, and cheaper ones like a Kimber Raptor, a Coonan 1911 357 Magnum, and a Series 80 Government Colt.

The trigger is smoother and the parts fit perfectly. For me, they shoot perfectly out of the box.

Some of the more subtle stuff is how the grip, trigger, safety and and grip safety feels is different.

Will it make a mediocre shooter better? No. Will it make a better shooter more competitive? Maybe.

Is it worth the extra money? Hard to say. I always had reliability with feeding anything in the higher end ones.

If I did some feedramp and internal polishing, I bet I could get very close to what some of my higher cost 1911s feel like in operation. But I don’t know how to properly fit certain components.

Some people complain about MIM parts but honestly, I never had issues in lesser models apart from the Kimber Ultra and Pro.

For the average individual, it’s likely not going to make a difference.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
So this is the pistol I’m debating. Wilson Combat CQB in Excellent condition. $1700 used. I handled a number of 1911s while there, including a Colt Gold Cup. Frankly the fit and finish comparison wasn’t even close. I’m not saying this will make me a better shooter or that less expensive 1911s also can’t shoot well. For the price I’m looking at I think the price difference compared to production might be worth it for me. The pistol is on a hold currently.

fd34850c27d247372b384b6766e96999.jpg




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
There have been countless threads on all the gun forums for over a decade... People with cheaper 1911s, complaining that their guns are just as good as the high end ones.... Some people get down right nasty about it too.
Click to expand...

Funny how I get those same type comments when discussing high end shotguns versus the cheap crap most non-shotgunners seem to prefer.
 
My own son gives me grief over my HK P7M8 and can’t understand why I wouldn’t sell it for several other guns he believes to be superior, but cheaper.

As to 1911s, the most I’ve ever spent was on a Springfield stainless TRP. It works for me, but I’ll likely wade into a custom model (Alchemy, Nighthawk, Wilson, Brown) or two at some point...just because I can.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Custim gun

Ever fire a round of sporting clays with a custom $20k+ shotgun fitted exactly to your body shape? There a difference with a custom gun.
 
Ever fire a round of sporting clays with a custom $20k+ shotgun fitted exactly to your body shape? There a difference with a custom gun.
Click to expand...

No, I haven't. Though I understand having a gun fitted to you, individually makes a difference, that's beside the point here.

For me, its a matter of if the difference in level of workmanship and finish is worth the cost.

I've never thought it was, and that goes back to the days when a really good Government Model was $300, and the custom shop guns were "only" $1,000.
 
If you are a 95th percentile 1911 customer, the "production custom" gives you the features you want, with a higher standard of fit and finish than pure production guns.
Since you want the standard list of beavertail, Novaks, extended safety, etc. that everyone else wants, there's no need to special order it and wait three years.
The true custom isn't just hand-built, it has features that are outside the norm; do you want an arched mainspring housing? Some companies don't offer it even on an otherwise completely custom gun.
Want a gun chambered in 9x23 WIN? Very few options if you don't go full custom.
How about a gun built to a high standard WITHOUT a beavertail?
What if you've always wanted a sight that uses an oddball dovetail?
True custom would be the only way to get it
 
To me it’s all in what you plan to do with the gun. I own 13 1911-style pistols, all sub $1000 guns. I just enjoy picking them up on good deals and I shoot a few rounds almost every day. I probably won’t ever shot anything more that a club IPSC or steel match and that won’t be often. So, does spending $3000 on a “custom” 1911 make sense in hopes of maybe turning my 4” groups into 3” groups, absolutely not!

In 2000 I started shooting sporting clays pretty seriously, In 2006 I bought a Perazzi MX8 and had it fitted to me. In the end it was a huge waste of money. I shot it no better than my much less expensive sporting clays gun.

There are a llot of psychological things at work when someone spends a lot of money on a “custom” anything. There’s also the “pride of ownership “ factor that is a very real existence value.

I Love it that Wilson, Baer, Brown etc. are selling their beautiful 1911’s. If people want them and the baby don’t need shoes, then why not!? Just don’t try to convince me that these works of art are going to improve the performance of 90+% of the people who buy them to any appreciable degree. It’s a feel good status symbol purchase for most, and there’s nothing wrong with that either!
 
Mine was a customized Springfield National Match by Larry Leutenegger, a pistol smith known in a small circle for making good accurate bullseye pistols. He lived 40 minutes from me.

1. Any problem could have been taken care of by next day. There were no problems.
2. My time was money back then. It was correct the moment he sold it to me. A little under 3” at 50 yards- it was an older used gun but accurate enough to learn on. Accuracy, perfect match trigger, sights installed, tuned magazines, a recipe for the ammo it loved... ready to compete with that moment. No fussing, tuning, fiddling, filing, wondering, cursing, asking why it wasn’t working.
3. Confidence. Until you own one done to perfection you never know what you are missing. Once there you have a reference for tweaking everything else.
4. Pride in ownership and the feeling of every part being glass smooth as you run it.
5. Accuracy. No one can take their shooting to the next level if their tools let them down. If I missed with that .45 it was me. If I missed with my S&W (not a 1911) it was “wow! I hit the paper a few times!” There is never a wait at the 50 yard line and that’s where the cool kids hang out.
6. Longevity. A properly fit 1911 lasts longer than one that clanks and beats against itself.

If your idea of fun is to blow through lots of ammo shooting at Zombie targets at 5 yards then no doubt a Rock Island will do the job. You may need a handful of trips to the range to tune your magazine and you’ll never know that the brass is not supposed to hit your head or that the brass could be in one area rather that all over the place. Heck, if a Glock is all the better you want to be, have fun- make noise. Boom boom. Don’t shoot cast or kaBoom.

I don’t carry, but if I was going to carry that much weight around I would want it to reflect my love of metal craftsmanship and precision hand work. As perspective, my wife’s wedding ring cost more than a custom Alchemy. She wears it every day- hand made by a custom goldsmith. Me? $90 titanium ring.

You might wonder why I have a Bowen perfected Bisley Blackhawk. Until you shoot it, then you won’t wonder! Yes, a Freedom Arms single action is arguably better but it’s like fighting over “who would win, Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris” (answer: they both win because Chuck Norris said so) I kept the Bowen, sold the FA. It was a really beauty though and appreciated in value. Used my match 1911 for a couple of years and sold it for what I bought it for.

Wilson Combat has a name, reputation, and you pay for it. Same with Baer and the other well known semi-custom shops.

Consider Alchemy. Consider some of the one man shops that have 2 year waits to get their craftsmanship. I hear the Springfield custom shop does good work and a Colt is always a Colt and a custom shop Colt is probably pretty good! Me? I am doing my best to not buy a Rock River- (not Rock Island)... so much want.
 
Last edited:
$1700 for a Wilson? I would do that

If somehow you don’t like it, you are unlikely to lose money reselling it. It’s already used.
 
To the OP, congratulations on almost committing to the Wilson-Combat CQB; actual delivery tbd, for now.

I was getting tired of various production 1911s which always needed additional work or were breaking within 10,000 rounds. I splurged on a railed Guncrafter Industries 1911 for ~$2700, as I recall.

As it turned out, I shot that gun and it started breaking down, but not until ~15,000 rounds (breakages: extractor, front night sight, slide-stop, plunger tube). These things which broke have broken down on me with other 1911s; usual stuff.

I later bought a couple more production level 1911s from Ruger and Colt. I didn't keep those 1911s for long as the breakages were frequent and accuracy not good enough for me. I suppose I was now spoiled. Accuracy-wise, I suppose a higher-priced 1911, which might be more accurate, could make a person a better shooter.

I've also had some production guns (Kimber, mostly) which were accurate, but needed work right from new, out of the box. Quality and reliability may be better now; I don't know, as this was ~13 years ago. I never got around to buying a Springfield-Armory 1911, but that brand seemed to be more reliable when new judging by the ones some of my acquaintances bought. But I digress. Again, congrats on the forthcoming Wilson-Combat, should you go through with the deal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top