Semi auto reliability
- Thread starter bjones870
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oneounceload
Moderator
A good quality gun from a quality maker will as reliable as any other type from a quality maker
Buy cheap, you get cheap
Buy cheap, you get cheap
arizona98tj
New member
At the last shotgun course I took, I ran my FHP SLP Mark1. It ran every bit as good as did my Benelli SuperNova at the previous class, which means it too ran without a problem.
That being said, a semi-auto shotgun is no different than a semi-auto rifle or pistol. You feed it under powdered or bad quality ammo, you will get poor performance. That doesn't mean you need top shelf ammo either....heck, I run the Federal 100 count value pack from Walmart. The Winchester value pack does not reliably cycle my shotgun. It is an ammo issue, not a shotgun issue.
That being said, a semi-auto shotgun is no different than a semi-auto rifle or pistol. You feed it under powdered or bad quality ammo, you will get poor performance. That doesn't mean you need top shelf ammo either....heck, I run the Federal 100 count value pack from Walmart. The Winchester value pack does not reliably cycle my shotgun. It is an ammo issue, not a shotgun issue.
TheKlawMan
Moderator
I disagree with you, Arizona, about the inabilty of a gun to cycle less quality ammo not being a gun issue; being an ammo issue. The greater the spectrum of ammunitions a shotgun will reliably eat, the better the gun; especially if it is intended for a survival role.
See I have read how "unreliable" semi autos are, especially gas operated semi autos, and IF you were gonna get a Semi auto the only reliable way would be to get a Recoil (inertia?) operated autoloader like the Benelli (M2?)
Bollocks!! Hardee harr harr HOGWARSH!
My first shotgun was my best, the Mossberg 930 SPX. It is a Gas-operated autoloader, and it supposedly has something called a "self-regulating gas system that vents excess gas to aid in recoil reduction and eliminate stress on critical components." - that's direct from the Mossberg website. I have been told Mossberg 930's gas system is very good for adjusting on the fly between 2 3/4" shells and 3" shells, and also different loads. that part i can confirm. I haven't popped too many 3" shells thru my gun nor really mixed them when I did, but I have shot ALL VARIETY and MANNER of 2 3/4" shells, light loads light-extra-light loads, slugs, Buckshot, reduced recoil loads, etc. etc. and it's been GREAT- I mean GREAT. I am talking about shooting a few mag tubbes full of standard 00 Buck, straight into a 25 pack of 8-shot Bird shot target loads (Cheap cheap!!!), into some reduced recoil loads, into home defense/personal protection loads, then some Hornady TAP premium HD rounds which are quite small sized compared, and Fiocchi buck shot which are also smaller sized, all FLAWLESSSSSSS, then some regular 00 Buck Winchester to clean it out again. ABSOLUTELY RELIABLE Ive not had ONE SINGLE PROBLEM with my 930 SPX. How can u say its not reliable, and its GAS OPERATED?
NOW, let us compare the Benelli M2 Tactical for example, a competition for the 930 SPX. Except its MORE THAN DOUBLE for a very similar gun. I was shown this gun when I was looking for my first shotgun, I had read on GlockTalk that EVERYONE in early 2010 wanted the 930 SPX... it was WHAT WAS GOOD IN THE STREETS SON!
Anyway I asked around, no one in NJ had them (turns out they're not NJ legal, loL) and some punk kid is like like, that gun sucks, we won't carry it cause it sucks so bad (Liar liar it wasnt AVAILABLE TO YOU) but we have this much better one, try this M2 Tactical by Benelli! Oh instead of $600-$650 its $1250-$1300. Oh how nice. anyway the gun was the truth, sexay and smoove. BUT- Recoil Operated. What that means is you get a lot of Feedback in the gun, Recoil you will feel. PLUS, if you don't shoulder it properly and BRACE for the recoil, it will not operate properly. So not only will you feel it, you NEED to feel it . So this is supposedly more reliable, but IMHO by definition that makes it LESS RELIABLE if it needs to be operated a certain way to shoot properly. OH YEAH It actually advertises/admits it wont use light/small loads. So it's not even versatile. And Gas operated guns inherently use less recoil felt, because they vent some of the recoil to cycle the action (Its the system)...
So after all that, I can't say I agree with Semi-autos bein less reliable. My 930 SPX is perfect. Oh and I spent a day shooting skeets with a buddy, he had his stepdad's Remington 1100 that the stepdad got when Rem 1100's were brand spanking new and the best thing out. Wiki says the 1100 came out in 63. The stepdad was a police hossman bossman and said he bought it when he was a young officer, early 70s. The 1100 was beautiful, great wood nice mid-length barrel, 26ish... and let me say. We put about a THOUSAND ROUNDS of the dirtiest dirt cheap loads possible. No cleaning, no lubing, just took an 1100 that was 30 years old, and had been sitting in a box for how many years? And started blasting away. never a failure. I wouild buy an 1100 simply because of this.
Having said all that, I do believe everyone who buys a Semi-auto shotgun should have a pump as a partner/backu0p. I will be probably getting a Benelli Supernova Tactical (I had purchased a Benelli Supernova tactcail/Turkey gun, it was SO AWESOME just a little too big for me, 24" barrel and big big Shoulder-pistol-gripped-stock, I had to dump it) but I would also like a Mossberg 590A1. .. having that pump backup, like a quality M590A1 or a SNT, will make u very happy and impervious to anytyhin.
Bollocks!! Hardee harr harr HOGWARSH!
My first shotgun was my best, the Mossberg 930 SPX. It is a Gas-operated autoloader, and it supposedly has something called a "self-regulating gas system that vents excess gas to aid in recoil reduction and eliminate stress on critical components." - that's direct from the Mossberg website. I have been told Mossberg 930's gas system is very good for adjusting on the fly between 2 3/4" shells and 3" shells, and also different loads. that part i can confirm. I haven't popped too many 3" shells thru my gun nor really mixed them when I did, but I have shot ALL VARIETY and MANNER of 2 3/4" shells, light loads light-extra-light loads, slugs, Buckshot, reduced recoil loads, etc. etc. and it's been GREAT- I mean GREAT. I am talking about shooting a few mag tubbes full of standard 00 Buck, straight into a 25 pack of 8-shot Bird shot target loads (Cheap cheap!!!), into some reduced recoil loads, into home defense/personal protection loads, then some Hornady TAP premium HD rounds which are quite small sized compared, and Fiocchi buck shot which are also smaller sized, all FLAWLESSSSSSS, then some regular 00 Buck Winchester to clean it out again. ABSOLUTELY RELIABLE Ive not had ONE SINGLE PROBLEM with my 930 SPX. How can u say its not reliable, and its GAS OPERATED?
NOW, let us compare the Benelli M2 Tactical for example, a competition for the 930 SPX. Except its MORE THAN DOUBLE for a very similar gun. I was shown this gun when I was looking for my first shotgun, I had read on GlockTalk that EVERYONE in early 2010 wanted the 930 SPX... it was WHAT WAS GOOD IN THE STREETS SON!
Anyway I asked around, no one in NJ had them (turns out they're not NJ legal, loL) and some punk kid is like like, that gun sucks, we won't carry it cause it sucks so bad (Liar liar it wasnt AVAILABLE TO YOU) but we have this much better one, try this M2 Tactical by Benelli! Oh instead of $600-$650 its $1250-$1300. Oh how nice. anyway the gun was the truth, sexay and smoove. BUT- Recoil Operated. What that means is you get a lot of Feedback in the gun, Recoil you will feel. PLUS, if you don't shoulder it properly and BRACE for the recoil, it will not operate properly. So not only will you feel it, you NEED to feel it . So this is supposedly more reliable, but IMHO by definition that makes it LESS RELIABLE if it needs to be operated a certain way to shoot properly. OH YEAH It actually advertises/admits it wont use light/small loads. So it's not even versatile. And Gas operated guns inherently use less recoil felt, because they vent some of the recoil to cycle the action (Its the system)...So after all that, I can't say I agree with Semi-autos bein less reliable. My 930 SPX is perfect. Oh and I spent a day shooting skeets with a buddy, he had his stepdad's Remington 1100 that the stepdad got when Rem 1100's were brand spanking new and the best thing out. Wiki says the 1100 came out in 63. The stepdad was a police hossman bossman and said he bought it when he was a young officer, early 70s. The 1100 was beautiful, great wood nice mid-length barrel, 26ish... and let me say. We put about a THOUSAND ROUNDS of the dirtiest dirt cheap loads possible. No cleaning, no lubing, just took an 1100 that was 30 years old, and had been sitting in a box for how many years? And started blasting away. never a failure. I wouild buy an 1100 simply because of this.
Having said all that, I do believe everyone who buys a Semi-auto shotgun should have a pump as a partner/backu0p. I will be probably getting a Benelli Supernova Tactical (I had purchased a Benelli Supernova tactcail/Turkey gun, it was SO AWESOME just a little too big for me, 24" barrel and big big Shoulder-pistol-gripped-stock, I had to dump it) but I would also like a Mossberg 590A1. .. having that pump backup, like a quality M590A1 or a SNT, will make u very happy and impervious to anytyhin.
I have an early Benelli M1 90. They specify a minimum shot weight .I don't know about the newer guns. Brownells did have a lighter spring for it .
I must be as tough as an Abrams tank because I've shot many a sporting clays match with it without any pain or discomfort !!
I have also fired it like a pistol -holding it out infront of me , one handed ,no big deal, functioned properly !
In Argentina for dove hunts the best guns they use for rental are Benelli and Beretta .Durable and reliable as you can expect to fire 1000 rounds per day !!
I must be as tough as an Abrams tank because I've shot many a sporting clays match with it without any pain or discomfort !!
I have also fired it like a pistol -holding it out infront of me , one handed ,no big deal, functioned properly !
In Argentina for dove hunts the best guns they use for rental are Benelli and Beretta .Durable and reliable as you can expect to fire 1000 rounds per day !!
Conversely I must be not tough, my new 930 SPX was really no fun to shoot, it hurt me with the recoil, the 00 Buck was borderline unbearing, slugs only could imagine.
I installed a LimbSaver and everything changed. Now it still kicks a little but it doesnt hurt at all, it just bucks a little, u get used to the motion and ur gravy. No pain whatsoever tho, amazing how it changed with a $35 squishy cushy pad.
I installed a LimbSaver and everything changed. Now it still kicks a little but it doesnt hurt at all, it just bucks a little, u get used to the motion and ur gravy. No pain whatsoever tho, amazing how it changed with a $35 squishy cushy pad.
+1 on what oneounce said ....
In your budget range - a good pump gun / is a very good choice. I would suggest you look at the Browning BPS Hunter model with a 28" barrel. They're retailing new for around $ 525...and its a good quality / long term gun that you'll have a long time. Browning also makes a "Trap" model BPS with a 30" barrel and a monte carlo stock ...its a very good gun as well and retails for around $ 650 in my area.
"Fit" is very complicated - and shotguns do not come in one size fits all ...that's why you'll hear don't buy X model - it recoils too much ( its because it didn't fit the shooter) ...
In your budget range - a good pump gun / is a very good choice. I would suggest you look at the Browning BPS Hunter model with a 28" barrel. They're retailing new for around $ 525...and its a good quality / long term gun that you'll have a long time. Browning also makes a "Trap" model BPS with a 30" barrel and a monte carlo stock ...its a very good gun as well and retails for around $ 650 in my area.
"Fit" is very complicated - and shotguns do not come in one size fits all ...that's why you'll hear don't buy X model - it recoils too much ( its because it didn't fit the shooter) ...
oneounceload
Moderator
Sounds like it doesn't fit you properly - nothing machismo about recoil and pain - the long-term effects can be VERY debilitating. Glad to see the LS helped, but if it didn't make the gun fit better, it is still a "band-aid" solution to your problem.
Good advice.
I don't think it matters much between gas or recoil operated. From personal experience a Beretta, Benelli, or Remington will most likely work fine. I prefer the inertia operated Benelli because it is simpler, lighter and requires less maintinence.
With the cheaper guns such as the Mossberg you are taking a much greater risk. Lots of guys happy with them, but you will find a lot higher percentage of guys who have problems.
There is also long term service and value to consider. Lots of cheap guns work well enough when new, but 10 years down the road are ready for the scrap heap. Quality guns cost more new, but hold up better for the long run as well as holding their value.
I've owned Mossbergs that sold for $300 new that sold for $150 ten years later. I had a Beretta that sold new for $500, ten years later I sold it for $600. Which was the better value?
arizona98tj
New member
TheKlawMan, fine that you disagree with me. Your right to do so.
However, when did this topic switch over to survival situations? The OP asked about reliability of a semi-auto....not about how many different loads the gun will digest. Hell, it doesn't shoot 3.5" shells either. I guess that makes it less reliable too? No, that reduces the variety of loads it can use.
If it comes down to a survival situation, you won't see me humping a shotgun around. I'll take a rifle, thank you. And if I am forced to shoot any and all 12 gauge shells found laying around, including 3.5" mags, I'll use one of my pumps. Enough of this survival crap.
Back on topic.....Doesn't change my opinion of the Winchester ammo. I can drop in a lighter piston so it will cycle it too. Does that make it reliable? But why should I? I have cases of ammo (bird, buck, and slugs) that cycle the gun 100%. If I want to shoot a lower charge ammo, I'll reach for one of the pump guns in the safe. Problem solved.
However, when did this topic switch over to survival situations? The OP asked about reliability of a semi-auto....not about how many different loads the gun will digest. Hell, it doesn't shoot 3.5" shells either. I guess that makes it less reliable too? No, that reduces the variety of loads it can use.
If it comes down to a survival situation, you won't see me humping a shotgun around. I'll take a rifle, thank you. And if I am forced to shoot any and all 12 gauge shells found laying around, including 3.5" mags, I'll use one of my pumps. Enough of this survival crap.
Back on topic.....Doesn't change my opinion of the Winchester ammo. I can drop in a lighter piston so it will cycle it too. Does that make it reliable? But why should I? I have cases of ammo (bird, buck, and slugs) that cycle the gun 100%. If I want to shoot a lower charge ammo, I'll reach for one of the pump guns in the safe. Problem solved.
TheKlawMan
Moderator
I apologize if I upset you, Arizona, but the OP was asking about the reliability of auto loaders and I meant to emphasize the fact that in tough times it may be difficult to get a hold of ammunition that isn't going to choke a semi. As for a pump being more reliable in a survival situation, you made my point.
arizona98tj
New member
I am not upset....just trying to stay on topic regarding what the OP asked. The OP never mentioned SHTF situations, survival scenarios, zombie invasions, nuclear war, aliens from space, or any other such thing. If he had, I would have recommended he get a pump gun which will run anything that fits properly in the chamber. But then again, the question was about reliability, not availability. Last time I looked, there was a difference. If you want to blend them together, fine. I don't.
regards,
regards,
TheKlawMan
Moderator
Forgive me for trying to answer the OP's question, Arizona, by adressing the the load; the ammunition.
You correctly identified one aspect of the reliability problem that can arise in a survival situatioin; the availability of munitions may be scarce.
I should have also emphasized that whether or not alternative shells are readily available, IMO a gun is less reliable if its user must be careful in his selection of ammunition.
You correctly identified one aspect of the reliability problem that can arise in a survival situatioin; the availability of munitions may be scarce.
I should have also emphasized that whether or not alternative shells are readily available, IMO a gun is less reliable if its user must be careful in his selection of ammunition.
keep them clean and they work! I don't mean you have to clean while at the range......I mean, if you shoot it, clean it before you stow it. I've had my 1100's amd 1187 out for multiple trips to the trap range without cleaning in between on some lazy days and still had no failures. The only problem you may have with a semi auto is if you hold the gun wimpy, it may not let the action do it's part....same as a 1911 pistol limp wristede. The shooter can make the gun not work right if you're not holding it tight in the shoulder pocket. I've fired mine from the hip and still had perfect cycling though.