Selling a gun to a guy without a permit....

T

tjhands

New member
I tried the search engine here, but there's SO much disjointed info that I gave up and had to start a thread.

I have a guy who wants to buy one of my guns. He lives in my same state (Iowa), but does not have a "permit to purchase a handgun." I asked him why he doesn't just go get one, to which he replied, "I don't think the govt needs to know everything about us, do YOU?"

While I agree with that statement, I'm wondering about the legality of my selling the gun to him. If I were to draw up a receipt saying that I sold such-and-such a gun with a serial number of XXXXXX to so-and-so on 4/22/06, and then have us both sign the paper, am I legal?

If not, then how do private sellers at gunshows get away legally with simply trading gun for cash, without ANY documentation or receipts?

Thanks. :)
 
You are going to have to find the laws that pertain to your State. I think the one law that is universal is you have to be 21 to buy a Handgun.Other than that all States are different:confused:
 
"I don't think the govt needs to know everything about us, do YOU?"
sounds like something an ATF agent would ask wired.
 
looks like he needs a permit to aquire

724.16 Annual permit to acquire required?transfer prohibited.
1. Except as otherwise provided in section 724.15, subsection 2, a person who acquires ownership of a pistol or revolver without a valid annual permit to acquire pistols or revolvers or a person who transfers ownership of a pistol or revolver to a person who does not have in the person's possession a valid annual permit to acquire pistols or revolvers is guilty of an aggravated misdemeanor.
2. A person who transfers ownership of a pistol or revolver to a person that the transferor knows is prohibited by section 724.15 from acquiring ownership of a pistol or revolver commits a class "D" felony.
 
In VA many cities used to have purchase permits, but these only applied to retail (ffl) sales, not private.

Give the police or courthouse where you'd get such a thing a call to find out what it does or does not apply to. Or do a search on Ohio's DOJ website for the language of the purchase permit.

Frankly, I doubt the permit applies to private sales because you, as a private citizen, have no official record keeping ability. What would you do with the permit after he used it?


You don't have to keep a receipt, and even if you do, a signature (legible or not) is sufficient to show that you sold the gun.


When I sell a gun locally I ask the buyer, "Is there any reason that it would be illegal for you to buy this gun?" If he answers no, and I don't think he's lying, that's satisfies my need to make a good sale.


Bottom line: If there is no state registration of handguns they can't possibly enforce a purchase permit system for private sales, since you wouldn't know how to collect and hand in the used permit.
 
Russ said:
You are going to have to find the laws that pertain to your State. I think the one law that is universal is you have to be 21 to buy a Handgun.Other than that all States are differen
Click to expand...

That's not universal...in Florida, for example, you must be 21 or older to purchase a handgun from a dealer...but only have to be 18 to purchase through a private sale.
 
Thank you to everyone who posted!! :D You guys are great.

This'll be good information for future sales, but for now, the guy just called me and backed out of the deal.

The shmuck.
 
If he has to have a permit to acquire, don't sell to him unless he has one. Otherwise you are breaking tha law. He could easily be an undercover police officer or ATF agent trolling for a bust.
 
"I don't think the govt needs to know everything about us, do YOU?"
sounds like something an ATF agent would ask wired.
Click to expand...
He could easily be an undercover police officer or ATF agent trolling for a bust.
Click to expand...
This wouldn't be in ATFE jurisdiction, technically. Intrastate, violating only the state laws.

Not that jurisdiction actually bothers ATFE, anyway. :rolleyes:
 
Pointless thread

The question was pointlessly posted in the General section. This forum has a Legal & Political section for a reason. I see it has, at last, been moved accordingly.

The more efficient approach to answering this question would be to check the state laws, available online from the state's own website, www.findlaw.com or from www.packing.org. The idea is to get an answer from a citeable source. :rolleyes:


"This wouldn't be in ATFE jurisdiction, technically. Intrastate, violating only the state laws."

Not if the buyer is a convicted felon, an alien or otherwise disqualified from possessing firearms under Federal law. What state lines did Randy Weaver or David Koresh cross? :eek:
 
Hi All,

please forgive for not knowing the complete legal background on weapons regulations in the States. In Europe, to be precise in Finland, the purchasing of firearmarms of any kind is not that easy.

I really would hesitate to put any kind of questions like this on the internet. In the long run, when something happens, there is no chance to tell: well, I just did not know...

Just let me recommend to carefully check details and also not to release too many documents, particularly not on the internet!
 
I think the one law that is universal is you have to be 21 to buy a Handgun.
Click to expand...

Close, but not quite. In Michigan, you have to be 21 to buy from a dealer. You only have to be 18 to buy from a private seller, providing that the buyer has a purchase permit.
 
"According to the law sellers of handguns are responsible to ensure that the buyer has a handgun permit. If not the sale is illegal. Buyers without a permit require an FBI background check for gun purchase."

That comes straight out of the Cedar Rapids Gazette. They print the same thing every day in the sporting goods classified section.

There are any number of people who will buy a gun from you LEGALY. You get caught or he uses the gun in a crime, you loose your guns forever,.
 
Fundamentally correct

"There are any number of people who will buy a gun from you LEGALY [sic]. You get caught or he uses the gun in a crime, you loose [sic] your guns forever,."

Correct. It is a simple cost/benefit analysis and I suspect the OP already knew the answer. He was just trying to rationalize a quick, but probably illegal, sale.
 
Beware

Beware, beware of anyone you don't know well, trying to get you to commit an illegal act. Any illegal act. Beware.

Beware of anyone you do know well trying to get you to commit an illegal act. But this is a different matter.:D
 
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