Sellier and Bellot 9mm 115g-- what's the story?

Long Path

New member
Howdy, y'all!

Yesterday, while qualifying with my (secondary/off-duty) Kel-Tec P-11 for a local P.D. reserves, I had my little pistol go "click"... TWICE. This was a completely new experience to me; I'd NEVER had my P-11 let me down.

During the Mozambique drill at 5 yards, at the very end of the session, I got off the first half of a double-tap, but the second half went "click." I pulled the trigger again (the P-11 has second-strike capability.): "Click."

As I had enough rounds in the magazine to complete the drill, I abreviated "Slap-Rack-Ready" to simply "Rack-Bang," and then made the head shot on the silohuette. The start of the very next Mozambique Drill brought me another click. Again, "Rack-Bang," bang, bang.

This was, so far as I can tell, due to the ammo I was using: Sellier and Bellot 9mm 115g FMJ Berdan primed. I've always had good luck with other S&B, and hadn't noticed any problems with the S&B in practice before. But there I was, having to recover, when shooting for record. Embarrassing. (Shots were, however, within time, and well within silohuette A-Zone; practice makes... er, better!
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) Main reason that I had this stuff is because it was SOOOOOO inexpensive from Cheaper Than Dirt.

The thing that caught my attention, however, was an officer there at the range who saw me with the box of it before shooting and remarked that he wouldn't depend on the stuff, as he'd had multiple failures with it in the past. I was surprised, as mine had thus far worked well. He'd left before I could catch up with him after qualifying, so I wasn't able to find out the nature of the failures he'd experienced.

My question is, anyone else used this stuff and found the same problem? The box is silver and green two-tone, with "9mm Luger" in a field of yellow on the front. Red lot # stamped on the inside of the end of the box is: "980/172"

Now, I'm NOT looking for commentary on my lowly little P-11!
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I want to know if anyone has found another cheap (<$9/box) source of factory 9mm, or if perhaps it's just this lot that was bad, or if any other S&B factory ammo has given any of y'all problems.

Tactical Rifle, BTW, wrote a love letter review of S&B .308 Match rifle ammo. My experience with all of their rifle ammo has been excellent. I've just never used their pistol ammo before.

Thanks for your help in advance, folks!

Matt/L.P.

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited April 16, 2000).]
 
Long Path,
I have used S&B 115gr for years, and I have never had a failure to fire. It is good quality ammo as far as I know. Although, every large scale manufactured product can have a bad lot from time to time. My advice is to send all the boxes of the bad lot back to CTD with a note explaining what happened, and ask for replacement.
Good Shooting.
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------------------
BOYCOTT SMITH AND WESSON!!!
Defend the Constitution from the foreign threat!!!!
 
I have had one failure to fire with S&B 9mm in about 5,000 rounds. It fired the second time.

As to 9mm that is less than $9 per box, I have been satisfied with everything that I have tried: Winchester USA, American Eagle, IMI, PMC, and Aguila. I plan to stick with S&B. If you are looking for something else, try http://www.ammoman.com/prices.html or http://www.cole-distributing.com/index.html or Natchez, 800-251-7839. If you are buying by the case, you should be able to find 9mm for $7 per box delivered.
 
Have you cleaned out the firing pin
channel and spring? The S&B is laquer
sealed for moisture resistance, just like
Wolf ammo. A friend said a buddy's SKS
had the pin lock forward due to a
build-up of this red laquer in the pin
channel. The resultant full-auto rip was
a learning experience. Maybe debris is
retarding the full forward motion of the
pin.
FWIW, I've been throught several K
rouds of S&B 9mm w/o incident. It's been
quite accurate too.
 
Hello. I do not use much S&B 9mm as it does not shoot accurately for me compared to handloads and other factory rounds. In .45ACP, it's OK. I have seen failures to fire in .45ACP where the primers must have been hard. They showed almost no indentation from the firing pin hit. This occurred with several 1911s with normal hammer springs! I've seen the same thing with 9mm, but less as I don't shoot it too much. S&B is OK for cheap "blasting" ammo, but I trust it for nothing more dangerous than paper. Best.
 
I've shot thousands of rounds of S&B 115 gr fmj, several hundred of them in my KT P-11. I've never had as much as burp. (I wish I could say the same about CCI Blazer ammo...)

The S&B has a reputation for hard primers, and I've seen several older guns that didn't handle it well.

The stuff I've used has seemed a little hotter than average, and very accurate. (But we all know that some guns are very particular about ammo... and what shoots well in one gun might not shoot well in another of the same model.)

VictorLouis's advice seems a good place to go, next...

[This message has been edited by Walt Sherrill (edited April 16, 2000).]
 
Longpath:

Academy sports has 9mm 115 grain Blazer for $4.99 per 50. I have had no problems from Blazer bought this year. About five years ao, I got hold of some .38 Special ammo that was junk. The winchester 9mm 115 grain in the white box is decent and usually $5.99 per box of 50. The only drawback is the fact that the red primer sealant goops up all around the firing pin channel mandating that Hoppe's #9 be used judiciously after each trip to the range. I have had no problems from UMC either but it is unpredictable and I would test it in the Kel Tec before taking it to a qualifying trial. Some say UMC is underpowered. I have had no problems using it in Sigs or Berettas. UMC is also priced in the $5.00 to $7.00 per 50 range.

I have been accused of pontificating about things I have no knowledge of but I will tell you that I had a brand new Kahr that had to be sent back to the factory after 200 rounds of S&B 9mm. Could have just been coincidence but I am not taking any more chances.

Besides, those guys at CTD are not able to stock the mass quantities of ammo they used to keep due to the socialists in the Ft. Worth, Texas Fire Department. Now lest those brave persons of the red take offense, we must ask ourselves why Cheaper Than Dirt wasn't called on the carpet years ago if there is truly a danger posed by their inventory?

Don't be ashamed of the Kel Tec. They have a purpose to serve and they do it well. That pistol may save your life or the life of someone else some day.

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited April 16, 2000).]
 
Good cheap practice ammo. Neve had a problem. I've had failure to eject with Winchester WhiteBox, however. I guess all of this inexpensive ammo is bound to fail for one person or another at any given moment. And there's the reason why it's range ammo only.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
I had about 3 rounds out of 200 of the 115 gr. S&B fail to fire in both my Kel-Tec P-11 and Glock 19. The primers were dented just as they should be, no bang though. I have never had a problem with the Winchester white box 115 gr. FMJ yet after maybe 500 rounds making it my new range fodder.

--Dean
 
I've shot thousands of rounds of Sellier & Bellot in 9mm, .40, .45ACP, .380, 6.5x55, and .303 Brit. I've never had a misfire. It is a bit dirty. The P11 is striker-fired, so if your gun is dirty, it is possible that it might misfire. Btw, 9mm S&B is Boxer primed, not Berdan primed. I know, because I've reloaded several thousand rounds of it.

Jared
 
I've been thru a couple thousand rounds of S&B in 9mm, .45, and .380, in a variety of handguns, and have never had a failure to fire. I've found it to be good, accurte, inexpensive practice ammo. YMMV. M2
 
The only thing that makes me nervous, of course, is the fact that both failures to fire occured within 3 shots of each other...

Will have to do further testing with other brands...

Will keep y'all updated.


Thanks for the responses, all.

Matt/L.P.
 
I have heard of some stories about striker fired pistols having trouble with S&B ammo, specifically not crushing the primer enough for ignition. The Kahr MK9 was the pistol mentioned.

I have an MK9 and have shot S&B 115 FMJ 9mm through it with zero problems so who knows.

Regardless, good enough for the range.
 
I found the 115gr S&B's on sale for $6.33 a box today. Bought a hundred and headed to the range on my lunch hour.

My CZ-75B never burped, sputtered, or coughed once. It did however put 80 of the 100 in the X-Ring at various distances. I'd leave the 20% outside the X as testimony to the fact that I need to spend more lunch hours this way...

The defense rests.

------------------
Triggers exist to be pulled... again and again.
 
M1911 and bad_bad_brad--

With all respect, the Kel Tec P-11 is not a striker-fired pistol; it has a hammer and a firing pin. As a matter of fact, the hammer is visible when firing. I suspect that M1911 is confusing the P-11 with the P-32, which is VERY different in its lockwork, and is, in fact, a striker-fired pistol.

Agree that hard primers are likely the culprit. Also, know that I hadn't cleaned the pistol properly in... well, a LONG time. Dirty gasses can get lotsa crud up in the firing pin channel to slow the firing pin down quite a bit. It is telling that the missfires occurred at the VERY END of my shooting trial, after several days of practice. Hmmmmm.... wonder if I had a pierced primer, instead?
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Long Path:
Howdy, y'all!

Yesterday, while qualifying with my (secondary/off-duty) Kel-Tec P-11 for a local P.D. reserves, I had my little pistol go "click"... TWICE. This was a completely new experience to me; I'd NEVER had my P-11 let me down.
[/quote]

I've shot thousands of rounds of S&B, mostly 9mm & .45ACP, with a little .380 and some .223 as well. I can't remember ever having a FTF with it, so I'd have to check closely into the pistol. Perhaps just some cleaning? I've shot quite a bit of the 9mm in my P11, no problems at all.
 
I've had no trouble personally with S&B 9mm or .380acp, but I have read a few post recently from folks who have...

There is some speculation that a recent lot of the S&B's had exceptionally hard primers. This has never been validated, but should it be the case, you may have received a box from this bad lot.

Let us know how the ammo works after cleaning your Kel-Tec.

--Rich

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Nothing threatens freedom so much as self rightous ignorance.
 
Longpath-I have shot S&B in .45acp for quite a while & found it 100% reliable and very accurate and perhaps the best feeding of the ball ammo--until recently.I purchased 200rds. in 5.56mm on the assumption that if it was so good(albeit universally agreed a bit dirty)in .45acp,I owed it to myself to try it in 5.56mm.It first malfunctioned in my AR which has been 100% reliable;had three seperate rounds where the bullet pushed back into the case as it tried to enter the feed ramp--happened right and left.Tried it in two other AR's as I was now in a panic about what has happened to my previously stone cold reliable weapon...same results...also had TWO FAILURE TO FIRE with great primer indents!We switched back to Winchester white box and happily shot the rest of the day with 100% reliability.When my current supply of S&B .45 runs out,I will be reluctant to purchase another case without testing lot #'s.Hmmm...I always loved the stuff too...Regards.
 
Cleaned her up well and shot the little plastic gun on Monday for about 35 rounds-- no failures to fire with Magnatech or whatever cheapo 115 FMJ I was shooting. I'm used to shooting reloads-- this business of paying $5.00-$10.00 per box for ammo is rather disconcerting to a po' boy like m'self!
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Will get back into reloading soon... when I've got the time.
 
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