Self done NFA trust

M

MDS

New member
I don't want to start a war here. How many folks have done there own NFA trust papers? Lawyers in my area want 600-1500$ I have forms. I know many people have done Quicken or other forms for a Revocable trust. Yes, this is to by-pass my CLEO.
 
I understand that I am not directly addressing your issue, but I decided to go the LLC route.
Seemed cheaper and has non-firearm related benefits.
It worked well for me.
Good luck!
p
 
I went the LLC route. 1) Cheaper, 2) Quicker, 3) Use for other purposes, 4) Can have dba names under main LLC, and 4) State approved forms online.
 
What are the consequences of an improperly written trust?
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That's a good question. Several possible consequences: 1) when you die, wrong person gets your stuff. 2) when you die, expensive legal fees for wife/kids to pay to undo a messy trust that just doesn't work.

Beyond that, I have some reservations about using a trust to bypass CLEO sign-off. These things haven't been thoroughly tested....yet, IMHO. What I mean is that it is possible for local governments, state governments or even the fed gov to invalidate these trusts if the sole purpose is to get around CLEO sign-off to possess things that you wouldn't otherwise be able to possess.

I would always opt to have Class III item registered to me as an individual, if at all possible. But, if this is simply impossible, I'd take the risk of using a Trust on things like suppressors. Suppressors arae relatively cheap. I'd think twice about using one on things like 10K+ machineguns, unless you have the skills, time, money and energy to defend the trust at some future date as having a purpose other than to just thwart the CLEO sign-off.

I know that there will be a bunch of folks here, lawyers included, that will disagree with me based on the premise that: "I did it and it's been no problem at all". If that's their premise, they are missing the bigger picture here. More and more people are using things to get around the CLEO sign-off....how long do you think it will be before the non-signing CLEO's make a stink about this and the Antis do something about it?
 
My dealer set up my trust. And since it's only for gun stuff... specifically silencers and SBRs I couldn't care less if it had Mickey Mouse in the thing.

I mean... the trust isn't on file with any authority or anything. And I don't have any real assets in it so for me there's no real downside risk of having it drafted with a mistake or something.

If I were dealing with a Trust for life planning, I'd definitely put more effort into getting all the details worked out right.
 
demigod: Is your dealer also an attorney?

As an FFL/SOT - I find it kinda incredulous to see the lengths that other FFL/SOT's will go to make the sale. Here in Florida there was a dealer that offered to do trusts for customers that ended quite badly.

I don't understand how what they are doing is not unlicensed practice of law.
 
Skans, I must take exception to the use of the term "bypass CLEO sign-off".
Trusts have been a recognized entity since the National Firearms Act was passed in 1934. Admittedly, It is only recently that it has come into favor with the general nfa buying population, but it has been there for a very long time.

Trusts are an excellent medium for those that choose to own nfa firearms and want to provide for a postmortem transfer of assets, as the items in a trust do not go through probate and a well written trust will include instructions for the proper disbursement of the assets held in trust. They are also an avenue to ownership for those that live in an area where the LEOs (or at least the elected/appointed "leaders") actively resist and hinder the expression of our rights as outlined in the 2nd Amendment.

There are other points, but I will limit myself to these. I am not attempting to start anything, just putting my pov out there.

Joat
 
Talk to all of your local Class3/SOT dealers, one of them might know of an attorney that specializes in NFA trusts at an affordable price. Mine was $500 and done by an attorney that is class3/SOT licensed. It's not the cheapest, but I know it was done right.
 
Another vote for Quicken. Mine was mailed in June, approved in August. Cheap, quick, and easy. Inheritance problems seem, at this point, to be theoretical.

gary
 
IMO the drawbacks of an incorrectly done trust could include surrendering the firearm to LEO (very expensive) or unlawfully possessing a Class III item, which could mean serious fines/prison/felony conviction. No thanks.
 
I agree with "GoingQuiet", that pretty close to practicing law and going way too far to get a 'Sale'.
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Nonsense. No different than anyone who drafts it themselves. If it were practicing law, then Legalzoom.com would not exsist.

There are all kinds of legal docs that can be done without a lawyer.
 
Whether a gun dealer who prepares trusts for NFA firearms is practicing law or not, will have no effect on the validity of the trust.

The form trusts "seem" good enough to get by BATFE to get them to approve Form 4's. The potential problem is if in the future 1) BATFE issues one of their famous "special rulings" invalidating certain trusts or 2) if local or state laws get passed invalidating these kind of trusts; or worse 3) this prompts the passing of local ordinances simply outlawing NFA items since they've lost CLEO control.
 
CLEO.....

I have always had issue with the CLEO sign off. They are being asked to sign a form that asks if it is legal to have Class III items in their jurisdiction. That's it. It's either legal, or it's not. How do CLEO's NOT sign these things?

My CLEO believes it's his RIGHT to regulate these items in his jurisdiction. He's WRONG. I'm not asking for his permission. I'm not breaking the law. I'm expecting him to do his job. He does not, so I don't bother going to his office any more.

I just don't understand why they feel entitled to ignore this part of their job.
 
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