self defense loads for 3" Ruger .357

B

Brutus

New member
Going to make some self defense loads for a friends 3" Ruger.
Want something that won't blind or blow out his eardrums in the middle of the night. My favorite is 13.5 gr. of 2400 under a 158gr. hollow point but that's
out of a 6" Python and according to Quick load only 50% of the powder would burn out of his 3" barrel. Quicker burning powders I have on hand are HP-38and Universal Clays. I'm thinking velocities between 1000 and 1100 would be appropriate. some feedback please.
 
Any decent load is gonna have a lot of muzzle flash and even .38 loads are very loud out of a short bbl. It's a self defense gun, learn to hit with the first shot. As for it being loud, well, it's loud.
 
My favorite is 13.5 gr. of 2400 under a 158gr. hollow point and according to QuickLoad only 50% of the powder would burn out of his 3" barrel.
Click to expand...

And therein lies the problem you pointed out: slow powder.

In order to craft a good "balanced" defense round for a short barreled gun, some compromises must be made. Namely, you have to give up some velocity - you just do. An intermediate burn rate propellant would be in order here.

I've done considerable testing with 357/158 XTP's for this same application. I have a 3" bbl 686+. I've tried Unique - a bit flashy. I've tried HS-6 - a bit more flashy. And I've tried Power Pistol - way too flashy. The propellant I settled on was AA#5.

(It's good to note here that most likely, BE-86 would be an excellent propellant for this application. Not only is it the ideal burn rate, but it also has a flash suppressant. I don't have BE-86, and have no need/desire to get any just for this niche application.)

The following load data is in compliance with Speer #14; Hornady 9th has no data using AA#5. As always, all handloaders must do their own load work-ups for safety.

Using a Hornady 158 XTP, and 9.2 grains of AA#5, my 3" 686 delivered 1097 f/s. (1159 f/s through a 4" 686 - for those keeping score at home :p.) This round seemed to be "balanced," with minimal flash and recoil. The question becomes, is 1097 f/s sufficient? Speaking for myself, I wouldn't want to be in front of it. Is it loud? Yes, it's. Is it as loud as a full-house, slow burner? No, not even close. BTW, heavy bullets aren't as loud as light bullets (in general); which is another sound (no pun intended) reason to go with a 158. Other factors may make 125's a better choice (apartments, thin walls, etc); but this is a discussion about 158's. I did a similar work-up using 125 XTP's and AA#2, btw.
 
powders I have on hand are HP-38 and Universal Clays.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I missed this part. ^^

I have no experience with Universal Clays - I don't even know its burn rate neighborhood.

I have and use a lot of HP-38; but have found it to be a bit persnickity in 357 for some reason. I'll spare the details. Suffice to say I prefer to use other propellants for 357.

Aside from my personal experience with HP-38/357, I would say that it might be a bit fast for the application. You'd have better luck using it under 125's, most likely - if you want to go that route.

The heavy 158's need an intermediate burn rate for this application. And that was the point of my previous post - that 1000 to 1100 f/s is doable through a 3" bbl - and with reduced flash and recoil (what I call a "balanced" round for the gun/application). With the right powder (AA#5 for me), it can certainly be done.
 
"...according to Quick load..." Don't use Quick load for load data. And beware of reloading for other people without a licence and liability insurance.
For some daft reason, Alliant used a 10" barrel test their 158 grain jacketed 2400 loads. So did Hodgdon. Really only means the published velocities will not be close. Big pressures too. However, your 13.5 is near max. Won't be pleasant out of a 3" barrel.
I'd be thinking HP38 with a cast 158. Lot tamer.
My old Lyman book gives 11.5(918fps) to 15.0(1227fps) of 2400 for a jacketed 158. Likely still too, um, vigorous for a 3" barrel.
"...that won't blind or blow out his eardrums..." Inside at night any .357 load will do that.
 
Universal is between Bullseye and Unique in burn rate, favoring the Unique side in some loads. It's one of the cleanest burning powders I've run into for .45 Auto, and expect it will be even cleaner in .357, since you can run the pressures higher. HP-38 (same powder as Winchester 231) will be just a tad faster, but can be loaded pretty warmly in .357.

I would simply go to Hodgdon's site and look up loads for both these powders, then run some tests. As remarked, you'll have to give up some velocity to keep the muzzle blast down. If there are any walls that would be penetrated by a miss and possibly kill a neighbor, that's not entirely a bad thing. If his ability to shoot accurately under stress is untrained and untried, a more manageable round may improve shot placement enough to increase likelihood of achieving a stop anyway. That's what happened with Elmer Keith's .41 Magnum. The reduced law enforcement load was well liked for net effective stopping power among police departments that used it.

Posts like this usually garner a usual set of warnings about potential liabilities from using handloads for self-defense and from loading for others (rather than having them learn on your equipment and letting them roll their own). Do be aware you can't legally sell the loads to anybody without an ammunition manufacturing license, which has hosts of issues of its own, including zoning that usually doesn't include residential areas.

But all those warning topics have been covered and debated in great detail in the past, so I'll ask everyone reading the thread not hijack it by reopening those debates. I am inclined to delete any additional posts that do.


T. O'Heir,

SAAMI has two test barrel lengths for a number of handgun rounds, including the .357 Magnum. One is to simulate a 4" revolver and is used in a test gun that has a 0.008" gap at the end of the chamber to simulate a revolver's barrel/cylinder gap. You thus get a barrel length, as QuickLOAD measures them, of the chamber length + 0.008" + 4" for the test gun. The other barrel length is for single-shot handguns often used in silhouette shooting, and is mounted in a universal receiver that has no gap and is 10" long. So the answer as to "why" a 10" barrel is silhouette shooting.
 
Fiocchi Extrema factory load with a 158 gr XTP clocked about 1050 fps from my 3" 357. Excellent load, IMO.
Curious to see if you can duplicate it with Universal.
 
One of the ancillary factors I stumbled upon in loading for my 3" S&W L-Comp is that if you single load your rounds, without benefit of a moon clip, ejection of the longer 357 cases is sort of spotty, using the relatively short ejector rod on that revolver. So I am using some +P 38's for the rounds carried in the revolver, and then 2 moon clips with 357 length cases in them in case of the need to reload.

I do this because I experienced incomplete ejection from non clipped 357's, but the 38's pop free just fine - because they are shorter. Clipped 357s pop out readily, I guess due to the combined mass of the empties as they are clipped together.

Too, I have found that the compensator on this revolver does not seem to have much effect even with a full charge of comparatively slow burning powder, such as 2400. For my practice rounds I use 5 grains of WW231 and a 158 grain cast bullet. Works just fine.

Lastly, I would not load cartridges for any but my own use. As another pointed out, there is a licensing requirement, a FET, and other practical considerations. I would direct my friends to the local gun store for their ammunition needs.
 
On smaller guns like the SP101 and Smith 60 I start with 125 gr bullets for reduced recoil and increased velocity. Magnum powders are not needed. I have been using SR4756 as a load I readily found from the powder company. It has a relatively high VMD so I can view the powder before placing a bullet on the case mouth. Other powders with high VMD are 700-x, American Select, Green Dot, and Trailboss, the latter better suited for 38 Special.

I found 6.0 gr of SR4756 to be pretty mild, so I prefer 6.5 gr. I don't have a place to use a chrony, so it's kind of a swag...what feels right to me without obvious accuracy issues, shooting mostly at 50 feet.

I save the 158 gr bullets for larger guns (more energy absorbing mass), using them in both 357 Magnum and 38 Special.
 
I believe going heavy is the better option in short barrels. No matter which powder you choose you're gonna struggle to beat 9mm speeds with 125 gr bullets in a 3" barrel. You will get plenty of recoil and blast though.

The 158 gr or heavier bullets are still effective at slower speeds common with short barrels.
 
I think the goal should be to stay subsonic while getting good expansion, so yes, 158 gr can slow things a bit. I still don't care for the feel of a full weight bullet, say 158+, in a small gun.

Speer Short Barrel is 135 grain and always my first choice in SD ammo for smaller 357s and 38s. The Speer manual shows "Short Barrel' loads in 357 running mostly subsonic.
 
"...No matter which powder you choose you're gonna struggle to beat 9mm speeds with 125 gr bullets in a 3" barrel..."

Critical Defense 125gn clocks 1300+ in my 3" GP100. Which 124gn 9mm load does that, because I want some.
 
I worked up a load for a 2 3/4" Security Six. I liked 8.3 gr. of W231 behind a 125 gr. Winchester JHP with a Winchester small pistol primer. Chronographed at 1250 fps. Didn't work up any 158 gr. loads since I didn't want the extra penetration they typically provide.
 
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