Self defense--.38 snubby--wadcutters
- Thread starter tbeb
- Start date
Brian Williams
New member
No, I prefer 158 gr LSWC moving about 950ps.
Blue Duck357
New member
*Might* be good, but...
My issue with it is their are a lot of loads out there with more extensive track records and that were designed from the ground up for the task. Basically when picking loads I just try to not screw up too bad, maybe don't get the best one but likely not to get the worst one either. I tend to make conservitive choices that are "good" at most things.
40 years ago people often reccomended the wadcutter for snub nose 38's as opposed to RNL,"metal cased" or semi-wadcutter rounds because these were the only real choices available.
I carry Fed 147 Grain +P+, which I like. 158 grain Lead Semi-wadcutter hollowpoint has a big fan club with several shootings by police agencies and FBI to back up it's rep as a decent load. Nyclad round was designed for the exact purpose your talking about (snub nose 38's).
'Course I also think 2 38sp wadcutters center mass from a 2" gun would in fact discourage a large percentage of folks from continueing thier current course of action
My issue with it is their are a lot of loads out there with more extensive track records and that were designed from the ground up for the task. Basically when picking loads I just try to not screw up too bad, maybe don't get the best one but likely not to get the worst one either. I tend to make conservitive choices that are "good" at most things.
40 years ago people often reccomended the wadcutter for snub nose 38's as opposed to RNL,"metal cased" or semi-wadcutter rounds because these were the only real choices available.
I carry Fed 147 Grain +P+, which I like. 158 grain Lead Semi-wadcutter hollowpoint has a big fan club with several shootings by police agencies and FBI to back up it's rep as a decent load. Nyclad round was designed for the exact purpose your talking about (snub nose 38's).
'Course I also think 2 38sp wadcutters center mass from a 2" gun would in fact discourage a large percentage of folks from continueing thier current course of action
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Years ago, I heard of people who swore by .38 special wadcutters with the hollow end forward, but I doubt they'd expand much at low velocity.
.38 special wadcutters would be an improvement upon .22 long rifle rounds, but they sure wouldn't be my first choice.
.38 special wadcutters would be an improvement upon .22 long rifle rounds, but they sure wouldn't be my first choice.
Standing Wolf,
The reversed HBWC's do indeed expand at low (~700fps) velocities.
At least, in wet newsprint they do.
Some that I've recovered, fired from a 2" M10, a 3" M64, and a 4" M15 all expanded from .650-.795", which ain't bad, nearly all doubling their diameters.
They didn't really "mushroom" as a faster round may have, but instead they resemble top hats like magicians wear, the expanded 'rim' didn't peel back against the body of the bullet, but just bent out to 90 degrees.
Penetration was about 4-6" in the newsprint.
And retained weight was on the order of 125-140gr's.
I don't think I'd choose these loads for street defense, but there is no doubt in my mind these would be good around the camp and farm for skunks, raccoons, bad dogs and other small-to-medium sized four legged miscreants.
Energy dump is absolute, and along with that lack of overpenetration comes safety for nearby livestock, barn interiors, camping supplies, fire rings, etc.
They are nice and accurate, at least out to about 20yds before they tumble, and recoil is not relevent.
Fun little loads to play with, that's certain.
-Kframe
The reversed HBWC's do indeed expand at low (~700fps) velocities.
At least, in wet newsprint they do.
Some that I've recovered, fired from a 2" M10, a 3" M64, and a 4" M15 all expanded from .650-.795", which ain't bad, nearly all doubling their diameters.
They didn't really "mushroom" as a faster round may have, but instead they resemble top hats like magicians wear, the expanded 'rim' didn't peel back against the body of the bullet, but just bent out to 90 degrees.
Penetration was about 4-6" in the newsprint.
And retained weight was on the order of 125-140gr's.
I don't think I'd choose these loads for street defense, but there is no doubt in my mind these would be good around the camp and farm for skunks, raccoons, bad dogs and other small-to-medium sized four legged miscreants.
Energy dump is absolute, and along with that lack of overpenetration comes safety for nearby livestock, barn interiors, camping supplies, fire rings, etc.
They are nice and accurate, at least out to about 20yds before they tumble, and recoil is not relevent.
Fun little loads to play with, that's certain.
-KframeI've seen fully jacketed full wadcutters. Get one of those moving HOT, like up around 1,200fps or more, and we may have something to talk about, at least for some applications (New Jersey?). But you won't get that in a snubby 38; you'll have a hard time getting there in 357.
(Lead rounds moving past 1,000fps tend to lead the heck out of the barrel unless they're hardcast, and even then you have to be careful with powder type and other issues. That's why we generally run jacketed for modern velocities.)
(Lead rounds moving past 1,000fps tend to lead the heck out of the barrel unless they're hardcast, and even then you have to be careful with powder type and other issues. That's why we generally run jacketed for modern velocities.)
Blue Duck357
New member
http://www.kieslersonline.com/ had it on sale about a year ago for $12.99 a box. Wish I'd bought a case of the stuff. Might try auction arms now.
Best, Blueduck
Best, Blueduck
Blue Duck357
New member
Ahhh... Heres some on Gunbroker at $21.95.
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=6676634
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=6676634
We experimented with various loadings using the 148 reversed hollow base WC. We pushed them from 2 gr Bullseye to some pretty hot loads which I won't list the loadings. At the low end they'd open a bit, but not much. At the hot end they'd over expand and come apart. Also had the leading problem. Running about 3.2 to 3.5 gr of Bullseye gave us good reliable expansion where they'd generally flatten on the nose and not come apart.
We also found that at about 25 yds they would tend to tumble, keyhole the target, and accuracy would suffer.
I know the "Doc" over on the Tactical Forum believes (and he's not bashful about telling you either) full wadcutters are the best and only defensive load. I doubt he's seen very many if any shootings with hot .38 HP loadings tho.
We also found that at about 25 yds they would tend to tumble, keyhole the target, and accuracy would suffer.
I know the "Doc" over on the Tactical Forum believes (and he's not bashful about telling you either) full wadcutters are the best and only defensive load. I doubt he's seen very many if any shootings with hot .38 HP loadings tho.
I don't feel under gunned with wadcutters.
But prefer other things if available.
However, nearly all of my wadcutters are loaded to minimum specs that will give accuracy at the range desired.
My 25 yard loads probably wouldn't do much to a bad guy wearing clothing.
My 50 yard loads would.....but not much room for error.
My plate loads are downright narstie.
What is in the gun at hand when needed is the key.
Use it the best that you can.
Sam
But prefer other things if available.
However, nearly all of my wadcutters are loaded to minimum specs that will give accuracy at the range desired.
My 25 yard loads probably wouldn't do much to a bad guy wearing clothing.
My 50 yard loads would.....but not much room for error.
My plate loads are downright narstie.
What is in the gun at hand when needed is the key.
Use it the best that you can.
Sam
YEARS AGO WE USTA BE ABLE TO BUY ' FULL CHARGE "
wadcutter loads, not just the ' midrange ' loads available today.
Let me tell you, these full charge wadcutters had some real thump on the receiving end. What is even more interesting is they were always more accurate in my guns than the popgun loads. To this very day this remains true and I only handload full charge wadcutter cartridges for my 38 and 357 sixguns. This is/was true also for the M52 S+W I usta shoot. WC bullets out of that shellshucker at 925fps would shoot dime sized groups at 25 yards and quarter sized groups at 50 yards; the midrange loads stunk in the M52
THIS YOU CAN TAKE TO THE BANK: A FLAT WADCUTTER AT 950fps OR MORE IS A DEADLY MISSLE THAT KILLS ALL OUT OF PROPORTION TO ITS' PAPER NUMBERS.
wadcutter loads, not just the ' midrange ' loads available today.
Let me tell you, these full charge wadcutters had some real thump on the receiving end. What is even more interesting is they were always more accurate in my guns than the popgun loads. To this very day this remains true and I only handload full charge wadcutter cartridges for my 38 and 357 sixguns. This is/was true also for the M52 S+W I usta shoot. WC bullets out of that shellshucker at 925fps would shoot dime sized groups at 25 yards and quarter sized groups at 50 yards; the midrange loads stunk in the M52
THIS YOU CAN TAKE TO THE BANK: A FLAT WADCUTTER AT 950fps OR MORE IS A DEADLY MISSLE THAT KILLS ALL OUT OF PROPORTION TO ITS' PAPER NUMBERS.