maestro pistolero
New member
I understand that timing is everything, and that now is not the time, but I'd like to share some thoughts on the matter, perhaps plant a seed or two.
For the record, I believe Richard Hamblen's challenge is poorly timed, ill-conceived and for those reasons, will only do more harm than good at this time. I don't know the whole history of his case, and don't know whether he availed himself of any legal means to acquire or build those weapons through the state.
Heller:
And from the verdict against Hamblen himself:
I find it disconcerting if any weapon not in common use may be considered dangerous and unusual.
Those weapons that are typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes include AR15s, and lots of them. Select-fire is only uncommon because they were recently (1986) closed to registration, not because they were banned or because they weren't typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes.
It's like the DC handgun ban: "You have to register your handguns, but we refuse to register them after a certain date"
The ongoing history of full-auto ownership in this country is that any law abiding citizen may have them with a background check and a tax certificate. That, in fact, is still true today. So we have a legal conundrum, where it is lawful and constitutional to own a type of weapon, but the government has passed laws which make them impossible to own or afford for the average person, and illegal to buy new. This is an infringement. Full auto is not illegal, only regulated. And now nearly regulated out of existence for just about everybody, because the closed registration has driven the market value through the roof.
Given the primary and only originally stated purpose of the Second Amendment (the first clause) it is impossible to seriously argue that the primary arm of the national guard and the four branches of the military shouldn't be the most protected weapon in the land.
From Heller:
But, as we have painfully witnessed in more than one or two wars, that sophisticated weaponry only goes so far in a conflict, and each conflict inevitably digresses into primarily close combat, which is usually where the campaign is actually won or lost. And the government would be highly reluctant to unleash such WMD upon it's own infrastructure, let alone it's own citizens.
For these reasons, I submit that small arms, as an entire category of privately borne weapons should be off the table as far as any outright or effective ban.
It would seem reasonable, given the relatively indiscriminate threat risk that fully automatic weapons present, that there may be an elevated level of training, screening, and regulation required beyond that required for more common defensive weapons. (edit to say: . . . beyond that required for semiautomatic weapons, Thanks, 44AMP)
But to outright or effectively ban the exact weapon which the government has chosen defend our nation at home and abroad, and which the government freely puts into the hands of every 18 year old capable of signing his or her name, seems to me completely and monumentally antithetical to the purpose, intent, and deepest meaning of the Second Amendment, and such, should be completely taken off the table as a policy choice.
For the record, I believe Richard Hamblen's challenge is poorly timed, ill-conceived and for those reasons, will only do more harm than good at this time. I don't know the whole history of his case, and don't know whether he availed himself of any legal means to acquire or build those weapons through the state.
Heller:
This reading seems quite a bit of a stretch. Since it would mean that the National Firearms Act’s restrictions on machine guns . . . might be unconstitutional, it is a startling reading? Startling is how this passage turned the plain language on it's head.Read in isolation, Miller’s phrase ‘part of ordinary military equipment’ could mean that only those weapons useful in warfare are protected. That would be a startling reading of the opinion, since it would mean that the National Firearms Act’s restrictions on machineguns (not challenged in Miller) might be unconstitutional, machineguns being useful in warfare in 1939. . . . We therefore read Miller to say only that the Second Amendment does not protect those weapons not typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes, such as short-barreled shotguns. . .
And from the verdict against Hamblen himself:
In United States v. Fincher, 538 F.3d 868, 873-74 (8th Cir. 2008), the Eighth Circuit held that the defendant’s possession of a machine gun was not protected by the Second Amendment under Heller: “Machine guns are not in common use by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes and therefore fall within the category of dangerous and unusual weapons that the government can prohibit for individual use.”
I find it disconcerting if any weapon not in common use may be considered dangerous and unusual.
Those weapons that are typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes include AR15s, and lots of them. Select-fire is only uncommon because they were recently (1986) closed to registration, not because they were banned or because they weren't typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes.
It's like the DC handgun ban: "You have to register your handguns, but we refuse to register them after a certain date"
The ongoing history of full-auto ownership in this country is that any law abiding citizen may have them with a background check and a tax certificate. That, in fact, is still true today. So we have a legal conundrum, where it is lawful and constitutional to own a type of weapon, but the government has passed laws which make them impossible to own or afford for the average person, and illegal to buy new. This is an infringement. Full auto is not illegal, only regulated. And now nearly regulated out of existence for just about everybody, because the closed registration has driven the market value through the roof.
Given the primary and only originally stated purpose of the Second Amendment (the first clause) it is impossible to seriously argue that the primary arm of the national guard and the four branches of the military shouldn't be the most protected weapon in the land.
From Heller:
. . . which it most certainly is not.It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful
in military service—M-16 rifles and the like—may be
banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely
detached from the prefatory clause.
At the time of our founding, there was essentially no difference in the type of weapons found on a farm and those found in the military. The primary purpose of any weapon has always been to equalize the disparity of power between individuals and between groups. To upset that balancing effect by prohibiting arms to citizens that are freely available to the government, is to eviscerate the amendment for the exact purpose for which it was intended. Of course, more dangerous and unusual weapons emerged, such as tanks, and bombers, making that disparity unavoidable in modern times. Along the continuum of dangerous and unusual weapons, no small arm, even select-fire rifles, begins to rise to the same level of danger of tanks, missiles, bombers, and the like.The conception of the militia at the time of the Second
Amendment’s ratification was the body of all citizens
capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of
lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia
duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as
effective as militias in the 18th century, would require
sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at
large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small
arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and
tanks. But the fact that modern developments have lim-
ited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the
protected right cannot change our interpretation of the
right.
But, as we have painfully witnessed in more than one or two wars, that sophisticated weaponry only goes so far in a conflict, and each conflict inevitably digresses into primarily close combat, which is usually where the campaign is actually won or lost. And the government would be highly reluctant to unleash such WMD upon it's own infrastructure, let alone it's own citizens.
For these reasons, I submit that small arms, as an entire category of privately borne weapons should be off the table as far as any outright or effective ban.
It would seem reasonable, given the relatively indiscriminate threat risk that fully automatic weapons present, that there may be an elevated level of training, screening, and regulation required beyond that required for more common defensive weapons. (edit to say: . . . beyond that required for semiautomatic weapons, Thanks, 44AMP)
But to outright or effectively ban the exact weapon which the government has chosen defend our nation at home and abroad, and which the government freely puts into the hands of every 18 year old capable of signing his or her name, seems to me completely and monumentally antithetical to the purpose, intent, and deepest meaning of the Second Amendment, and such, should be completely taken off the table as a policy choice.
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