Seems the Border Patrol needs rifles. Ideal situation for the Scout??

P

Payette Jack

New member
What ya'll think?

I think the Scout (nice khaki or desert camo stock) should be just about ideal for taking on those Mexican soldiers/narco-terrorists that are pestering our BP agents. As a taxpayer, I would fully support arming them thusly vs. the M16 or similar rifles.
 
USBP had M14s in the inventory some time back, may still have them. My INS location had several. When I retired the only thing I regretted was turning in 'my' M14.

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As someone smarter than I said, "The Scout Concept is a rifle designed by handgunners for handgunners." No rifleman would want one. In a SHTF scenario, I would want an assault rifle, not a bolt gun. In any other scenario, I want a real rifle with a real scope, not a short carbine mounting a pistol scope. I can shoot a rifle at short range, but I won't shoot a short barrelled, low powered scoped Scout at 500+ yards.

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Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club
68-70
true story, a Union Gen. once said "Don't worry about those Rebs. They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..SPLAT.
 
The scout is OK but the Intermediate eye relief scope idea sucked when Leopold and Redding hung them on model 94s in the 60s and they still do. Jeff is "the" guru of the 1911 like Elmer Keith was of revolvers but they both need(ed) lessons from real riflemen like Jack O Connor or Boddington etc. I see they are advertising all the scout rifles with regular scope mounts now in the ads. Evidently the IER scopes were not a hot seller.
 
I would think a M-14 would be fine for this, but it always depends on the tactical situation at hand. The BP should be able to use whatever fits the bill.

One can work a bolt action quickly, but it's best to be sure. Most situations don't require extreme accuracy.

As for Scout rifles, mine works just fine. I can hit whatever I can see, even with the 2.75x Burris IER scope. It's not the only rifle I own, but it is the one I use the most. I concede that the IER scope MIGHT be a limitation, but all I have to do is detach it from its QD mount and put on a more powerful scope if I really want to shoot at 500+ yards. I just don't really think there is any reasonable situation that I may wish to do so, that's all.
 
Get them semi-auto .30 caliber rifles, wether AR-10s (maybe with a
silencer?), M-14s, SIG 510s or maybe a Dragunov.

And get them Steyr TMP SMGs for close-in work.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mussi:
Get them semi-auto .30 caliber rifles, wether AR-10s (maybe with a
silencer?), M-14s, SIG 510s or maybe a Dragunov.
[/quote]

A silencer on a .30 caliber rifle? What for, pray tell? A .308 round is going to be supersonic anyways, so a suppressor isn't going to do a whole heck of a lot...

M1911
 
I would issue them M4 carbines and have maybe one guy in a team issued a Remington LTR in 308.

[This message has been edited by RikWriter (edited November 02, 2000).]
 
In Nogales I know they are not issued rifles, but if the agents want to they can check out an M4 when they go on shift. Personally I think it's the best compromise. It's short and light for CQB, yet better than an SMG because of the round. I don't think the 5.56 is inadequate because out to 200 yards it will do just fine. The M14 is great especially for 500+ yards, but we're talking LE work not military sniper work or cover fire. It's hard to justify shooting at undocumented aliens running over a ridge 600 yards away. Most of the lethal force situations on the border in this area are close encounters anyway, like 100 yards and in. I like their choice of the M4 (not that they asked me though). Definitely not a bolt rifle however.
 
I think they are starting to put M4's in the vehicles these days. I am down here in SE AZ and the BP trains out at the range I shoot at since they don't have their own range. Part of their qual/refresher is shooting the M4 carbine. I usually end up scrounging up the brass so I know they shoot it.
 
Intel6 has it partly right. BP currently is authorized M4's, and they are required to qualify with them. However (according to my BP friend in the Campo CA BP station), the M4's are never issued to the regular agents, only BORTAC (the SWAT team) in order to avoid an "incident."

The are allowed to take a shotgun (Scattergun Technology Border Patrol model) but when I went on a ride-a-long, I only saw one agent take one.

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TaxPhd

"Those who live by the sword are probably pretty f***ing good at it."

"Instructions for a successful gunfight: Front Sight, Press Trigger, repeat
as necessary." - B. Braxton
 
Don't the BP carry side arms? In the story I read I saw no mention of them returning fire. Even if they were out of pistol range, I would still send a few wild shots to let them know that We were serious.
 
At the Nogales BP station, regular agents are allowed to carry an M4 if they want to qualify with it. They don't take them home like they do their Berettas, though.

Intel6, is that the Sierra Vista range that you go to?

[This message has been edited by AZTrooper (edited November 02, 2000).]
 
I think "long rifles", etc., are a moot point.

The B.P. needs some politicians who are not traitors to their sworn oath, to say, "Protect Out Borders!" And then back them when they "protect our borders."


That ain't a'gonna happen, boys and girls.

J.B.
 
I would be happy with an M2 .30 carbine, were I BP.

I wouldn't mind having an m1a in "Bush/Scout" config, either. I would appreciate having a sound suppressor for that annoying muzzle blast, TVM.
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There's no 'ordinary' life, Wyatt. There's just life.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M1911:
A .308 round is going to be supersonic anyways, so a suppressor isn't going to do a whole heck of a lot...[/quote]

Aaaa but it will!! While a suppressor can't reduce the sonic crack from the bullet they can & do suppress the Report of gasses leaving the barrel. That is what a suppressor is designed to do.

You have to remember that the sonic crack from a bullet moving super-sonic travels 90 degrees from the bullets path. You hear the crack as the bullet passes you. Now, (taking that the shooter missed) if the sound comes from your left or right that means the shooter is in front of behind you (same applies for front/behind sound coming from left or right).

So... if a shooter has an effective suppressor on his weapon and fires at you all you will hear will be the sonic crack. The report from the rifle will be suppressed so you won't know where the shot came from (and unless the princibles involved are understood most people would turn and look the way the sonic crack came from (90 degrees off from the shooter)

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Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
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