Seeking Advice: Getting rid of .308, considering 30-30/.22

B

bilbobaguette

Inactive
First, I live in Texas.

Second, My situation is this: I purchased my first rifle five years ago. My previous shooting experience had been with iron sites on .22's and 30-06 in boy scouts growing up. I had been comfortable with the heavy clunking 30-06's from scouting, so I decided .308 would be familiar territory for the recreation and hunting I wanted to be doing. I'm sure I made a beginners mistake when I bought something pretty and "neat" rather than something practical and tested. My Kimber Montana is a beautiful gun, but its feather-weight frame insures you feel every ounce of the recoil and it is, for me, virtually impossible to stay on target after a shot. I have never taken it hunting but I imagine a backup club would make a more effective option than a follow up shot. A trip to the firing range ends after a mere 15-20 rounds, generally when my shoulder can't take anymore. While she sure is pretty (and accurate, to boot), I believe it is time for us to part ways in search of something more practical, economical, and fun.

My questions are these:

-What are the most effective ways to sell a gun (I would consider my rifle to be in excellent condition)? Would I benefit at all by trading in?

-How does the kick of say a Marlin 336 compare to getting beaten in the shoulder with a Kimber Montana .308 (I hope there's someone out there who agrees with me on the angry Montana)?

-I'm interested in something lever action, most likely a Marlin 39a or 336 30-30 (or both), any advice? (I will most likely be firing on irons at the beginning)

-New or Used?
 
You already have a good rifle, before you trade it in....

There are a few things you can do to tame the recoil. The quickest is to get a PAST recoil shield (or other brand). This is cheap and easy.

If you don't mind altering the rifle, an improved butt pad and adding a muzzle brake are both great at taming recoil.

And finally, if you don't want to wear a recoil shield, or modify the rifle, then you can always try changing the ammo.

Low recoil 308 ammunition. This will give you 30-30 performance out of your Montana for less than buying a new rifle. Federal makes "low recoil" and Remington markets "Managed Recoil" for 308 Win rifles.

I don't like recoil either, and a lightweight 308 will beat the snot out of me too. Also an 8x57 with a steel butt plate is no fun when you are wearing a tshirt.

Jimro
 
bilbob

First a 308 and 30-30 are not much different in recoil.

Second, or actually first, I would take that rifle to a good gunsmith and have him check it for headspace on the bolt. I have found that most hard recoiling rifles are due to excessive headspace and this can be easyly corrected.

Third you could add a dampaning system in to your buttstock and bring down the recoil substantianlly.

Cheaper than a new gun.
Jim
 
a long time ago i bought a rem mohawk in 308. that thing kicked like a mule. paid for it on sat, sold it on monday. with a decent stock a 308 is a nice rifle to shoot recoil wise. i do like 243, 257 roberts etc even more.
...as others have said, reloading is the most reasonable way to tame recoil. the short case of the 308 does lead to accuarate reduced loads. 110 speer with re7 from a published manual would be a good place to start.
... however i do like a 336 marlin too! fwiw, bobn
 
Welcome to the forum.

I would change the recoil pad to a Kick-Eez or a Limbsaver as that will definitely change felt recoil. Wear a shooting pad at the bench if you need to, but you won't notice recoil in the field when hunting.
 
Thanks everyone for the advice. I think I will try out a pad and some low recoil ammo on some random vegetables tomorrow and see how I feel about it.

How much would a muzzle brake help? And are they very easy to install or would I need someone more practiced?

Also, I seem to recall handloading equipment to be a fairly pricey investment if you weren't shooting all the time. What is a good estimate for reloading my own rounds?

I'm currently paying off my college expenses and don't currently have a lot of spare change (which is partially why I was considering swapping in for a .22 until I have a more stable financial situation). A tight grouping of .308 rounds is also beer money thrown down range ;)
 
A .22 and your .308 are totally different rifles in terms of intended use. If you just want a fun range gun, or plinker or rabbit gun the .22 is great, but if you intend to hunt anything bigger than a rabbit you are getting into more recoil (ok I know you "shot placement is everything" guys can bring down a water buffalo with a .22 but I'm not as skilled as you are).

There are endless debates over relative felt recoil in different calibers and loadings. Some computer wizards have even developed mathematical models for such, which I don't understand but they sound good. My bottom line is that anything in the non-magnum range is at one end of the scale, and anything with the word "magnum" in it is at the other end. I don't feel much difference between a .308 and a 30-30 or even a 22-250, but I can sure tell the difference between a .308 and a 300WinMag.

I also feel more recoil on my bolt and lever guns, whereas with a semiauto you'll have some of the recoil energy absorbed by the action. But then a semi is a more complicated piece of machinery and if you are just beginning you may want to stick with the bolt or a decent lever like a BLR. Stay clear of the Marlins unless you get a 5+ year old used one in decent shape since the accountant owners have pretty much destroyed Marlins' quality control of late.

So, if you want to drop down to .22LR fine, but if you want a mid-range caliber, +1 on the earlier comments regarding a decent recoil pad. I don't own a gun with a muzzle brake but my impression is that they may reduce recoil but produce wicked noise for anyone standing to the side of you.
 
As has been mentioned, a lever 30-30 off the bench will still kick you pretty good. I don't find them fun to bench shoot. A muzzle brake will definitely help with reducing the recoil but it will make the rifle much louder on your end and to the sides! It is also something you need a competent gunsmith to install as the end of the muzzle will have to be turned and threaded to accept it.
A good sissy bag (I use a homemade one, myself) like the Past is pretty cheap and a Limbsaver or Kickeeze buttplate will help also. I'd suggest those two to start and if still not enough then consider a muzzle brake.
If you don't handload and it sounds like you're not into that, yes, it is expensive to get a decent set up. For just one rifle you would never get payback in savings over factory ammo.
The reduced recoil ammo I've got no experience with as I do handload for about everything.
 
Second, or actually first, I would take that rifle to a good gunsmith and have him check it for headspace on the bolt. I have found that most hard recoiling rifles are due to excessive headspace and this can be easyly corrected.
Click to expand...

I suspect that the OPs recoil problems have more to do with shooting a 5 1/2 pound 308 than any "headspace problem".

The easiest fix would be reduced recoil ammo, a Past shield and possibly improved shooting technique. I would not recommend a muzzle break unless both the shooter and everyone within 100 yards was wearing plugs AND muffs every single time the gun is fired. Muzzle breaks are LOUD.
 
Use a PAST with a slip on recoil pad, it does help a lot. The rifle well still have the same recoil but you well feel much less of it.

You could drill the butt and add some lead weight.
 
+1 on the "add a recoil pad". In any light weight rifle such as yours the recoil will be much greater than in a heavier gun.
You have a nice rifle there, I'd give it a chance with a Decelerator
or Limbsaver pad. Did wonders for my Tikka Lite.
Sent via Tapatalk ~Android~
 
"I'd give it a chance with a Decelerator
or Limbsaver pad. Did wonders for my Tikka Lite."

Did the exact same thing (Limbsaver on a Tikka Lite). I couldn't believe how much it reduced the recoil. It still kicks pretty hard, but it's nowhere as bad as it used to be.

Your original post sounds very close to what I went through with that rifle - 15 to 20 rounds and I just didn't want to shoot anymore. It got painful, and ceased to be fun. Check out the recoil pad before you get rid of the rifle.
 
As suggested above, the pads can make a difference.

It was also said that the recoil between the 308 and the 30-30 would be equivalent. Depending in how well one rifle stock fits versus another the perceived recoil may be the same but from a recoil energy standpoint that's not true.

See the table at the included link.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

In rifles of approx the same weight the 308 will kick harder unless the round is loaded down to 30-30 levels (which they do make). The 308 throws bullets of the same weight significantly faster than the 30-30. That makes for better performance and unfortunately, more recoil. Remember, you can add a pad to the 30-30 too.

That said, if money is an issue and you don't need it for hunting forgo even the 30-30 for now and get a 22. Those come in all shapes and for all budgets; including the levers you're interested in.
 
My experience is once you have lost magic with a particular weapon, ditch it and start new. A man's relation to his rifle should be clean and understanding. The rifle should be clean and you need to understand how to make it hit not wondering how it's gonna hit you.

That said, a Browning BLR in a .308 winchester is accurate and a good bit heavier to tame that recoil a bit. Even more recoil reduction can be had with a Springfield M1A, FN Herstal FNAR or a DPMS in .308win. I really like shooting my FNAR because it groups like a bolt action but the winner for feel and magic of shooting go with the M1As. Not as accurate but much more fun to experience.
 
Your Kimber was not intended as a target rifle. So it's not surprising that it doesn't work well for that purpose.

You can make non-permanent changes that will make it easier to shoot at the range. The problem is that the barrel is very light. Heat will quickly throw your accuracy out the window.
You will have to get a heavier barrel if you want predictable groups after more than 5 rounds.
That will help with the recoil. It may also reduce the resale value of the gun. Few people want to buy a super light mountain gun that is no longer light.

A Marlin 336 will have easier recoil. It won't be light recoil unless you have a good recoil pad on it.
The 336 is fun to shoot and is an excellent hunting rifle. Don't expect great accuracy from it. It also is not a target rifle.

I think you are better off selling the Kimber. Check out gunbroker, or on this forum to sell the gun. Face to face transactions are the easiest, but you might not find a serious buyer that way.

Good luck
 
Handload. It doesn't take much money ($100 give or take) to get a starter one caliber set up and you will pay for the equipment in a couple hundred rounds. For reduced recoil loads do a search for "blue dot .308 loads". IMR4759 is another good powder for reduced loads.

LK
 
BilBobaquet,

I sure wish you hadnt started of with" Im From Texas":D
You have a great little rifle, just use managed recoil ammo and get a Packmyer Recoil Pad, or Limbsaver put on your Buttstock and your good. :D
 
+1 for hand loading

If you can afford to keep the gun you'll only occasionally use for hunting, or you're willing to handload so you can shoot it more at the range, keep it.

As accurate as the gun is, I guarantee is is more accurate with handloads. That also goes for any 30-30 you buy.

Bolt action rifles were MADE to be hand-loaded for. You see, when the factory makes ammunition, they have to make it to function in every single gun in that caliber. But you... You only need your .308 ammo to work in THAT Kimber. Get a box of factory ammo, or load up some ammo in new brass. After you've fired it the first time, the brass is fire-formed to your rifle's chamber. In essence, it is custom brass, for your rifle. Take that brass, trim it to length, if needed, and collet size it and reload it.

Bolt guns also don't need a lot of power to function the action properly. Just enough to get the bullet out of the barrel.

Of course, you don't need to buy heavy bullets either. For target shooting, you can buy the lightest bullets in 30 caliber and load them up.

But your barrel is still going to heat up quickly, so if you want it to be a range gun, you really do need to look further. Heavy barrel.

I think a nice range gun is in order, as soon as you can afford it. Maybe a .223 Remington, heavy barrel, bolt gun. The heavy barrel will dissipate heat better.

Then, when you want to go hunting, you've still got that nice .308. AND the tools to make the best ammo for both hunting AND target shooting.

Check out the videos linked in my signature. It can be pretty simple. Single stage press and Lee Dippers, for example. Haven't got anywhere to mount a press? How about a hand press? There's lots of options.

Let us know what you decide.
 
700$ plus around 300$ for a decent scope will get you a cz 527 .223 rem. They are very good target shooters and at 200 yards or less good for hunting anything white tail or smaller. I've only used mine for target shooting, but I do know people who use them for hunting white tail. I have only hunted rabbits and always use my savage 300 series .22lr bolt action for that.

You mentioned wanting a lever action; I love playing around with my henry's, but it is just that, play. They are good for close or short range defense, especially my .357 henry lever action, but are useless at long range unless you are a very practised and skilled shot. The magazine tube underneath the barrel and the band make them hopelessly inaccurate at long range. A good shot with a 30-30 can dispute that, but that same shooter will be 200 yards better with a bolt action 30-30.
 
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