Seating lead bullets.

P

Pond James Pond

New member
A while back I bought a stack of lead SWC bullets that were cheap with a view to loading them as .44Spls.

I'm presently starting to load a ladder of charges to see how they perform and if they cause leading.

When seating the bullets, even in cases that have been flared generously, slivers of lead are being shaved off the bullets. This is not max flare, but the flaring sleeve-mark can be seen about an 1/8 of an inch into the case.

Should I just go heavier on the flare?!

In many "cases", that means a flap of lead sitting over the case's mouth, up against the case wall. (Not yet even sure that they would chamber!)

So far no crimp applied...

So:
  1. Is this normal?
  2. If not, how do I avoid it?
  3. What can I do to remedy the current crop, if anything?
  4. What will happen if I just shoot them as they are?
 
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A stepped expanding die is much better for loading lead bullets, especially when the bullets are a little larger in diameter than the standard jacketed ones. The M expanding dies offered by Lyman are such dies. Lee also offers their Universal expanding die, which is very low cost, but I don’t think it works as well as a stepped expanding die.

Some of the cowboy dies designed for loading older classic lead bullet cartridges may also have expanding dies better suited to lead bullets.

Interestingly, I noticed that a RCBS 454 Casull die set I recently purchased had a stepped expanding die. After using it, I’m of the opinion that there is really no down side to a stepped expanding die and would prefer all my straight wall dies had a stepped expanding die.

As long as the brass is within the required length and they chamber OK, there should be no danger in firing them. At worst, accuracy might suffer due the lead shaving.
 
Set yor die to seat them to the depth you want first. Run a couple through. Back the seating stem out. Set to remove the flair, and the amount of crimp you want. Most times the lead sliver means crimping is happening before the bullet is seated all the way.
 
Set yor die to seat them to the depth you want first. Run a couple through. Back the seating stem out. Set to remove the flair, and the amount of crimp you want. Most times the lead sliver means crimping is happening before the bullet is seated all the way.
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Ordinarily, I'd agree but I've never used the seating die for crimp: only the FCD.

So the crimping sleeve is way up, out of the way and the bullet seating adjuster wound way in.

And, the fact is that typically I have never flare the cases much, largely because I wanted to avoid fatigue of the mouthes and necks and because my usual choice of a plated bullet has a fairly rounded bottom edge making seating the bullet with little flare easier.

These have a sharp edge and are softer.

I will, nonetheless, check the crimp setting by putting a case in and seeing if the flare is affected.
 
A flap of lead sitting over the case's mouth means the bullet isn't going in straight. Needs a tick more flare, but not 1/8". Just enough for the bullet to sit in the case mouth without you holding it.
You set up the seating die the same way you do any die except you turn the seating plug up first. The shell holder should still just kiss the bottom of the die, then you adjust the seating plug down.
"...if they cause leading..." Leading is caused by trying to drive a cast bullet too fast. Assuming you're using cast bullet data, that should not be an issue.
 
Now, you know why they were cheap
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I think they were cheap because they'd been on this shop's shelf for about a decade. The packaging looks ancient. The bullets themselves look very uniform.

"...if they cause leading..." Leading is caused by trying to drive a cast bullet too fast. Assuming you're using cast bullet data, that should not be an issue.
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The other problem with these is they are exactly the same as my bore, not that extra 0.01" over-bore. So I could also get leading if I don't for a good seal with pressures that are too low as well as leading with pressures and speed that are too high. A fine line for my first lead loads!

Needs a tick more flare, but not 1/8".
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I have flared a little more and tried some more and they seated fine, so it was the amount of flare. I now need to decide if I should reload those first 20 or shoot what I've already loaded up.

1/8" was the depth of the friction mark I could see the ring had left inside the case. Not any diameter difference from original.
 
Also just got back into loading up some 44 mag L-SWC using RCBS 3 die set, my flair must have been enough seated & crimped fine. T.O'Heir gave good advise as always.
 
Thanks for the vid link.

As it happens, having flared the cases more, so that the bullet edge just sits in the and the bullet then seats very nicely. As pressure is minimal, there is no rounding of the SWC tip.

I will need to pull and redo the first 19 rounds though as the lead shaving was pretty bad.

I had thought of just cutting it off, but then I though that the walls of the bullet-base cavity would be even thinner than their existing .429" increasing the risk of a bad bore gas-seal, particularly as these are at the minimum end of the charge weight range making leading a higher risk than it already is....
 
This is not max flare, but the flaring sleeve-mark can be seen about an 1/8 of an inch into the case.
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A expander plug "sleeve" mark is not a flared case. All that the sleeve mark means is
that it has been uniformly/cylindrically expanded to that depth --not flared. You need
to screw the expander stem down further until the plug's second step just starts to
flare the mouth itself.

The mouth of a truly flared case can easily be felt with the fingers as having a slight lip,
and the bullet base will slide into the case by hand about half the width of a dime before
stopping.

Then you seat the bullet. Guaranteed no slicing of the bullet shank.
 
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The mouth of a truly flared case can easily be felt with the fingers as having a slight lip,
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This is what is happening now. I could feel the lip before, only that the bullet would not sit just in, only on the case mouth.
 
Sounds like a clear cut case of "Monkey Paw", no offense but I've seen it before.
My procedure is to flair the case until the bullet just bites by hand. Next I charge a case place the bullet on top, then I raise the ram and screw the crimp die down until I can feel it touching the case then I adjust the seater to the proper depth lock everything down and I'm ready to go.
While seating the bullets to depth I use a very slow gentel and methodical press stroke to ensure the bullets seat straight every time. After seating all the cases I then back off the seater adjust the crimp die where I want it and crimp all the cartridges. This procedure has worked like a charm for 35 years. I know it might seem a bit anal but then I also clean my primer pockets to boot.:)
 
You want the bullet to start in the case.

As others have mentioned, this is a perfect application for an "M" type expander.

Once I started using stepped ("M" die) expanders, I never stopped. I even use them for jacketed bullets, now.

Interestingly, I noticed that a RCBS 454 Casull die set I recently purchased had a stepped expanding die. After using it, I’m of the opinion that there is really no down side to a stepped expanding die and would prefer all my straight wall dies had a stepped expanding die.
Click to expand...
I won't load cast/swaged bullets without one, now.
 
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