Scout Type Rifle?

C

Coop de Ville

New member
Without getting into specific brands, what are the requirements for a scout type rifle? Weight, length, caliber, colour, what?

Regards, -Coop
 
while i like the concept, i cant say i care for the token gun, aka the styer scout. but then again i'm not caught up in the name brand facination (ala rolex, lexus) either.
i personaly use a remington 600 that has been lightened and the reciver and BBL cryo'd. the stock has been cut fore and aft to give me the LOP i desire and to give the front end a more natural feel when using the gunsite ching sling installed there. the sling mounts are of the styer flush variety and the scope is a fixed 1.5X mounted on a custom semi-shroud that covers the first 4 " of the reciver/BBL area. cal is (of course)308 and weight is 6 pounds to the ounce unloaded. trigger is a crisp 30 oz and length is 37 1/3".
it is loud.
it has a tremendous muzzleflash w/ hornady lightmagnum ammo.
but it is also the lightest, fastest rifle i own.
and it kills like the hand of the almighty. i have yet to have a deer blink after contact.
if you want the cookie cutter version get the styer.
i would suggest finding a strong action you like and building to suit YOUR needs, not Mr. Cooper's.
 
XXSUPO, if you'll stop and think for a moment, you'll realize that Steyr built what *they* thought met Cooper's design requirements. Nobody else bothered.

I have no problems with Cooper's ideas, but I sure don't like how Steyr executed them...

For instance, I have a little 19" Sako .243 which weighs seven pounds with Leupold Vari-X II 2-1/2X8, ammo and sling. If it were re-barrelled to .308 and the easy chore of adding a mag-well in the stock were done, it lacks only the forward mounting of a scope to meet Cooper's requirements. (Remember, the bipod is optional.) I figure I've had the "beginnings" of a Scout Rifle for some 30 years. LOL

Well, after 50 years of using conventionally mounted scopes, I'm uninterested in learning a new set of reflexes. But that's taste, not judgement against the idea of a forward-mount for the scope.

And my rig's a LOT prettier than the Steyr!!!

:), Art
 
Personally, I love scout-type rifles. And I also am very disappointed in the Steyr offering. My biggest complaint was the price.. then I got one and my biggest complaint became the light hits on cheap ammo.. then the Leupold scope lost control of the objective lense and it just started rolling around inside the tube........

Luckily for me I had purchased a custom built Scout back in 1996. It has served my very well, I've taken several white tail and always had a blast practicing with it. It is a Remington 700 with an 18" .308 barrel, synthetic stock, 3 point Galco leather sling, Galco leather check pad with shell carrier, and a Burris 1.5x scout scope mounted on a Burris scout mount. The scope mount is return-to-zero quick release and the rifle has a back up ghost ring rear/tritium front dot sights.

Funny Scout Anecdote: Back in Jan I was hunting in a swamp in Southern AL. On day 2 or 3, the 6 wheeled thingy that my guide kept trying to use to take me to my hunting area died and we had to play mechanic on a muddy patch of high-ground in the rain. The rifle got trashed, but when I finally got to my stand, I was able to remove the muddy/fogged/dirty scope and be very happy that I had back-up sights. Byt he last day of the hunt, the rain had mostly stopped, so I put the scope back on the rifle, but it again ended up in a mud puddle before I got into a stand. When I went to load the rifle the bolt would not close. I tried and tried.. finally, it was starting to get light, so I just put a roundinthe chamber, closed the bolt as far as it would go and then smashed the (don't try this) bolt handle and rifle sideways against a big tree to get the bolt locked. It worked, and I even shot a nice doe on the run at about 50-60 yards later that morning, and the firing must've knocked somehting loose, because the bolt worked fine afterwards. I had to give in and clean the rifle after that trip.. but once every five years isn't that bad I guess.
 
art, when i reach 50+ years of hunting i'll probably want a close and high magnification scope, too.
this rifle was my first using a forward mounted scope and i found that i really like it. i dont think that it will somehow magically diminish my ability w/ a conventional scope however.
too each his own.
one thing i will agree w/ you deeply is that the styer scout is one ugly mutha'.
if i am going to dump that kind of kitty on a short BBL non-weatherby rifle it at least better have some nice lines and wood. (i detest synthetics on anything other than paramilitary rifles and shotguns)
if you read NYRSCCA 's link to the cooper concept you will see that the prototype was in fact a remington 600. they should have stopped there.
i think perfection in a scout could be reached w/ a rem 600 in 350 rem., burris forward mounted 2.75X w/ quick release mount, and a ching sling. i personally dont see a need for the bipod. if your prone anyway why do you NEED a bipod?
Marines have been shooting 500 yards+ w/o bipods in the prone and hitting center on man sized targets. if you need a bipod you probably need to stalk closer to your quarry.
 
There was a time when Cooper wrote of efforts to get Remington to pay attention. They didn't. Steyr saw a way to hype a $1,000 gun into $2,500, so they did it.

"Ergonomic" is a wonderful label which allows an item of no more production cost than an "un-ergonomic" equivalent to be sold at a higher price.

Years, ago, the annual cost to GM for new molds to stamp out body panels was some $50 million. My question was, "Why not shape these molds for pretty, instead of ugly?" Regardless, we got such things as the Chevette. And now, the Steyr Scout.

Take any short-action .308 in excellent used condition. Any halfway competent gunsmith-machinist can shorten the barrel and thin as desired. Silver solder the equivalent of a Bushmaster "Flat Top" scope mount onto the barrel ahead of the receiver. Do whatever you want to do for a stock to control the overall weight. Inlet a mag well. I'll bet you can do all this for well under a grand. (I know a guy who'll do a barrel for $100.)

Obviously, "If you want to."

:), Art
 
Ive shot the steyer scout and its ok...I just didnt want to pay that type of money for that ugly of a rifle.......so I kept looking and found the base rifle that I plan to use....I just acquired it and tried it at the range this morning with iron sights......Its a fr8 spanish mauser made in either 1951 or 54, chambered in 308---its about 7lbs with out a scope, but it does have features that I wanted including overall length, the rear sights are set on the back of the receiver and the front is hooded....this morning at the range using IRon sights with my aged eyes the first three were a clover leaf with the last ones out to the right now thats on a bench at 50 yds to see if it would hit the paper, the gun shot slightly to the right, and I wasnt going to fiddle with the sights att as long as it was on the paper...at 100 yds which was all that was available, it stayed in 4"......not good, but I figure that Im the problem not the rifle.....(Im thinking of lense replacements, set for distance..), The rifle comes with someneat feature, but I wanted a carbine in 308, with claw extractor and good iron sights and thats what it has....for around $250.......the rifle was in surprisingly good condition with a great bore, although when cleaning the cosmoline off of some of the metal parts normally the areas that were covered with wood there was rust starting in a couple of places....I believe you can still get them from aimsurplus.com .....bolts and receivers matched....
here is a link that gives the specs...fubsy
http://www.gunsworld.com/spain/cetmefr8_us.html
 
As a gun store employee we soemtimes get a deal we can afford. We sell Steyer rifles and they are out of my price range. We do not sell Savage that are. just got a Savage Scout. It is not my favorite brand but will performe well.
I put a Thompson Center 3X scope with lighted reticle on it, got several boxes of .308 from the shop and did some testing.

With the reticle light on the scope acts like a Bidon sight for me. Fast and on the money out to about 70 yards. Taking a little more time Groundhog shots are good to go at around 200. This is good for me. It is my new truck rifle. I think I can do better and plan on adding a real "Ching Sling". I will not worry about the bipod. My daypack will work just fine. I plan on experimenting with the stok to see if I can add an extra mag folder.

I have also fitted my Marlin 1894 carbines with AO ghost rings and scout mounts. These work great for around the farm Coyote control. I just use red dot sights on these for fast target aquisition.

While the Steyer Scout is an engineering masterpiece it is ugly, costly, and fragile(plastic backup sights).

After I practice a little more I'll get around to building a scout on a Ruger 77mkII stainless.

It is always a work in progress. That's what makes it fun.

Cheers,

ts
 
My scout rifle is also suitable for....

carrying through the woods seeking venison on the hoof.

It's a 6.5x55 Swede cut short barreled. The stock has been lightened. A one piece mount was silver soldered to the barrel. It has a forward mounted 2.5x scope.

Looks like 40 miles of bad road. Shoots like a million bucks. (Now if I just could....)
 
I built a scout on the Ruger MkII and it is now my favorite rifle. It was completed just about the time that the Steyr became available. At the time I lamented that I paid close to $1700, all totaled, for this custom rifle, when for only $700 more I could have purchased the Steyr.

After knowing more about the Steyr, I am much happier with my execution of the concept. My scout is a bit heavy with the stock action and an excellent McMillan Sako Classic stock. The balance of the rifle is perfect, which I think is more important than the strict weight criteria, which my rifle just barely meets. It has a great, thin, 19" barrel from Wells Sport Store with integral scope pedestals and is 0.550" at the muzzle. It has a back-up iron front sight on the front pedestal and a flip up aperature on the rear receiver bridge. The problem with using the Ruger action is finding someone willing to do trigger work on it. Getting tougher all the time in our litigation happy society. A scout, especially a custom to your specs, is well worth the time and money.

A great place for info on the scout rifle is Eric Ching's web page. http://pw2.netcom.com/~chingesh/index.html

Wells Sport Store http://home.earthlink.net/~debpedersen/index.html

McMillan Fiberglass Stocks http://www.mcmfamily.com/mfsinc_n/mc_test.htm

[Edited by Caffino on 06-02-2001 at 12:39 PM]
 
There is one thing I forget to mention specifically.

What any well executed scout rifle has is incredible handling. They are a joy to hold, handle, point and shoot. It is easy to forget about how a rifle is to carry and manipulate. When most shooting ranges stipulate shooting from the bench only, handling becomes somewhat moot. But when a rifle is meant for the field, it is best judged there.

Also, don't let the price of my rifle deter anyone. If you already have a short action rifle, all you really need is to have the barrel turned down to a light contour and lopped off at 19". Then just add a sleeve-type forward scope mount and you are there. Both Ashley Outdoors and Beast Enterprises make good sleeve mounts. Oh yeah, you'll want the IER scope and a Ching Sling. Pachmayr flush mount sling swivels are also a plus, now that they are back in production.
 
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