Awhile back there was a lot of discussion about the Scout Rifles when the Savage Scout came out, and someone said that they thought a better value would be what they called a "psuedo-scout" based on I think a Remington 700. Could someone point me to that thread or tell me what all would be involved in this alteration from off-the-shelf rifle to "scout" rifle? Please be specific.
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Scout Rifle
- Thread starter Futo Inu
- Start date
Take a look at Arizona Shooting Sports at http://www.beast-enterprises.com /
They build an Econo-Scout based upon either a 98 Mauser or Ishapore SMLE in .308. They don't make Scout weight (3 Kilos/6.6 pounds), but they are an economical alternative to Steyr's offering.
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Mossyrock
I wasn't here. You didn't see me. Nobody can prove anything...
They build an Econo-Scout based upon either a 98 Mauser or Ishapore SMLE in .308. They don't make Scout weight (3 Kilos/6.6 pounds), but they are an economical alternative to Steyr's offering.
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Mossyrock
I wasn't here. You didn't see me. Nobody can prove anything...
Rob Pincus
New member
Here is one thread on the topic of Scout $$$, you can use the search engine to find more.
http://216.199.9.84/NonCGI/Forum3/HTML/000117.html
It was probably one of my posts that you are reffering to. I had a Scout rifle built several years ago on a Rem 700, and I was not very impressed with the Savage Scout.
You can buy a Remington 700, then buy a scout type scope mount and a Burris 1.5x MER scope and a good 3 point sling and still be under $600. I also have one of those nice Galco leather shell holder on the stock.
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-Essayons
http://216.199.9.84/NonCGI/Forum3/HTML/000117.html
It was probably one of my posts that you are reffering to. I had a Scout rifle built several years ago on a Rem 700, and I was not very impressed with the Savage Scout.
You can buy a Remington 700, then buy a scout type scope mount and a Burris 1.5x MER scope and a good 3 point sling and still be under $600. I also have one of those nice Galco leather shell holder on the stock.
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-Essayons
Rob, thanks; that was a good thread. Believe it or not, my interest in a scout-type rifle is "pure and true", in that I really intend to use it for any and all rifle applications (other than perhaps close-in Y2K defense), as I do not own any other rifle as yet besides an SKS. Just thought you might want to know that, so you could view my "scout rifle experience" in that light. When you're poor like me, the scout concept is particularly appealing.
I like your pseudo-scout. Sounds just about perfect. My only question is what would be the cost and feasibility/practicality of replacing the light Remington 20" barrel with a light FLUTED barrel, for an extra accuracy edge, otherwise keeping the scout identical to yours?
Also, in light of my one-rifle, all purposes dilemma (at least for awhile), what do you think as between a Scout vs. say, an M1A or other mil semi-auto for this scenario? I'm thinking semi-auto no good because too finicky feed-wise with different loads -not enough versatility. Also, what about .308 vs. 7mm-08. 7mm is better for varmint weight bullets, but factory/mil-surplus .308 ammo much more available. But if you reload, 7mm08 brass can be made from 308...
Also, why the Rem over another maker? Should any other makes be considered, or would they be too heavy or what?
[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited June 08, 1999).]
I like your pseudo-scout. Sounds just about perfect. My only question is what would be the cost and feasibility/practicality of replacing the light Remington 20" barrel with a light FLUTED barrel, for an extra accuracy edge, otherwise keeping the scout identical to yours?
Also, in light of my one-rifle, all purposes dilemma (at least for awhile), what do you think as between a Scout vs. say, an M1A or other mil semi-auto for this scenario? I'm thinking semi-auto no good because too finicky feed-wise with different loads -not enough versatility. Also, what about .308 vs. 7mm-08. 7mm is better for varmint weight bullets, but factory/mil-surplus .308 ammo much more available. But if you reload, 7mm08 brass can be made from 308...
Also, why the Rem over another maker? Should any other makes be considered, or would they be too heavy or what?
[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited June 08, 1999).]
Rob Pincus
New member
The Rem wins with me because I have had good luck with them and almost any gunsmith is going to be able to wokr on them. I think the "true and pure" scout concept values ease of maintantance and resupply. That should also tell you where I stand on the 7mm-08 vs. .308 thing... Sure, 7mm is a good round, but the .308 can be found on every continent in huge tonagges. Stick with the .308, IMHO.
Think about the scout concept again, think about how much REAL accuracy you might gain with a Fluted Custom barrel. Now, is it worth the extra money? Not if you are asking me. Not even Close.
Semi-autos are nice, but they are not simple, nor Light.. two important factors for an all-the-time all occassions long gun.
I am sure that you culd go with other things, say a Ruger M77, as your base for the scout, but I think the Remington is just so established as a reliable base that I wouldn't tamper with it.
There is probly no reason not to build a psuedo scout on a Savage rifle (I think the "Savage Scout" is overpriced), but for the very little extra money, I would rather have the Remington.
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-Essayons
Think about the scout concept again, think about how much REAL accuracy you might gain with a Fluted Custom barrel. Now, is it worth the extra money? Not if you are asking me. Not even Close.
Semi-autos are nice, but they are not simple, nor Light.. two important factors for an all-the-time all occassions long gun.
I am sure that you culd go with other things, say a Ruger M77, as your base for the scout, but I think the Remington is just so established as a reliable base that I wouldn't tamper with it.
There is probly no reason not to build a psuedo scout on a Savage rifle (I think the "Savage Scout" is overpriced), but for the very little extra money, I would rather have the Remington.
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-Essayons
Rob, seems like you've thought this through very well. You're right, a semi-auto is much too heavy for the scout concept, but I was thinking more of the occasional hunter all-purpose rifle. I guess I was thinking that long packing trips/deep woods excursions are few and far between in my life - on the few occasions I am able to hunt, the treks are short - but with any luck as time goes by, my free time and thus my back-to-nature time will increase. Thanks for the help. I think I will take a close look at the Remington. Is there a difference between the model 700 and model 7?
Futo Inu, I did a similar scout on a M7 in .308 and am pleased with it. Used the Burris mount and Burris scope. If you add a special barrel you might as well use integral pedestal mounts, machined while the barrel is being made. This rebarreling runs the cost WAY up. Mine is blue/walnut and I see advantages in this. You already have a front sight and it is easy with a wooden stock to plug in another Uncle Mikes stud for a CW or Ching sling. This is perfectly satisfactory and means all you need to come up with a receiver sight. Something I don't like about M7s is that they are so barrel light. Not good for offhand shooting. Putting the scout scope out on the barrel is a big help. A M7 is a smaller, lighter action than the short M700. The stock is slightly different, too. The rifle models are similar though. I have no opinion on the new Savage as I have not handled one but modifying a M7 or M700 is a whole lot easier than taking a milsurp rifle and starting there. I think if one goes the milsurp route it makes sense to leave it in original configuration as those military rifles are very tough, much more so than the sporters we are talking about in this thread. My M7 weighs 7lbs even.
I have noticed comments previously on the cost of the Savage Scout. It can be purchased in my locality for $420. That seems cheap to me considering the cost of retrofitting an surplus military rifle which won't make weight and won't be covered by any warranty. It also seems cheaper than buying a new Remington and doing the same (and probably also not covered by warranty because of alterations). Yes, the Savage Scout does not include a scope, but neither does any other rifle other than a Steyr Scout or an inexpensive package rifle. I am not impressed with Savage fit, finish or overall appearance. On the other hand, I am also not impressed with the economy 700--butt ugly blued with a plastic stock. In fact, the Savage appearance may have a slight edge. The more expensive 700's are beautiful rifles but I suspect will not come within the $600 budget. So lets start with the $369 cheapy Remington. Add at least $150 for a Scout mount and installation (very conservative cost); add the same for reserve sights for at the least the same amount and you are now at $669 for something similar to the Savage. It will undoubtedly be considerably heavier and longer (22" v. 20" barrel). Both will probably have mediocre appearance. I'm not convinced the Remington is overwhelmingly superior. Savage has the reputation of equal to slightly better accuracy. I agree if the Scout were based on a Model 7 or nicer 700, it would look great but then the cost would be greater. Would I buy a Savage. Probably not unless it becomes clear there will be no alternatives. I hear Winchester may introduce a Scout soon. If so, that would be my first choice.
I'm going to throw my $.02 into the mix. If you are looking at a scout rifle as a hunting arm, go with Steyr, Savage, Remington, etc. But I seem to recall Cooper's original thoughts on the Scout also envisioned a semi-military application. That was one of the reasons he wanted the scope forward of the action in order to facilitate rapid reloading.
Now I don't own a Scout, and have never shot one. The only one I ever handled was the Steyer (and it was sweet), but when I build a Scout, it will be on a military action, even if it doesn't make Cooper's weight restrictions. Only the military actions give you a charger guide and the option of a speed reload with charger clips. I currently have a couple of Lee-Enfield No 4's and I just picked up a Spanish Mauser FR-8 in 7.62x51. The Enfield is my favorite with a really smooth action and 10 rd detachable magazine. If only the British had adopted a rimless cartridge when the rest of the world did!!
Anyway, got a little off target here. My whole thought in this response was to suggest you accept a weight penalty and go with an action that allows the use of stripper clips. Controlled feed is also a very big plus.
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Dorsai
Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal
weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the
monarch of all he surveys.
-- Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle
Now I don't own a Scout, and have never shot one. The only one I ever handled was the Steyer (and it was sweet), but when I build a Scout, it will be on a military action, even if it doesn't make Cooper's weight restrictions. Only the military actions give you a charger guide and the option of a speed reload with charger clips. I currently have a couple of Lee-Enfield No 4's and I just picked up a Spanish Mauser FR-8 in 7.62x51. The Enfield is my favorite with a really smooth action and 10 rd detachable magazine. If only the British had adopted a rimless cartridge when the rest of the world did!!
Anyway, got a little off target here. My whole thought in this response was to suggest you accept a weight penalty and go with an action that allows the use of stripper clips. Controlled feed is also a very big plus.
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Dorsai
Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal
weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the
monarch of all he surveys.
-- Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle
Rob Pincus
New member
Flash, I can have the gun I built, with the Scope, for anyone for $699, that is full retail form my dealer/gunsmith. That includes all the work, and very nice Galco Leather Sling/shell holder.
I think if one shopped around, and skimped a little on the sling, you could be around 600. That is where you will be with the Savage, and I'd rather have the base model 700 than the Savage.
Yes, there are prettier guns, but the Scout concept says nothing about being pretty... and I think my Remington looks pretty cool, besides... especially with Ballistic Silvertips in the Shell holder....
I think if one shopped around, and skimped a little on the sling, you could be around 600. That is where you will be with the Savage, and I'd rather have the base model 700 than the Savage.
Yes, there are prettier guns, but the Scout concept says nothing about being pretty... and I think my Remington looks pretty cool, besides... especially with Ballistic Silvertips in the Shell holder....
Well, here are my ideas on this issue. If I could afford one I'd buy a Styer in a second. Currently that is not an option. I have opted to go the military rifle route. I am having a scout built on a #5 Mk 1 Lee Enfield action. (Jungle carbine) I am replacing the original barrel (destroyed by corrosive ammo) with a surplus 2 groove #4 barrel cut to 18". The front site has had the flash supressor and the bayonet lug removed. Scope is a Leupold Scout Scope, rings are Warne Maxima Steel QD and the base is an Ashley Scout Mount. The stock has been replaced with a Ram Line synthetic stock.
The 10 rnd detatchable box magazine, superior iron sites, and ability to use stripper clips are, in my opinion, worth their weight in gold! I find the fact that my rifle will be a slightly modified version of the best bolt action battle rifle ever fielded to be comforting.
303 ammo is plentiful and more than powerful enough and most of the major manufacturers are releasing match ammo for it this year. A Ching sling and a Galco butt cuff ammo carrier wil round things out. I can't wait until it is done!!! Price for everythin should be around $700.00.
The 10 rnd detatchable box magazine, superior iron sites, and ability to use stripper clips are, in my opinion, worth their weight in gold! I find the fact that my rifle will be a slightly modified version of the best bolt action battle rifle ever fielded to be comforting.
303 ammo is plentiful and more than powerful enough and most of the major manufacturers are releasing match ammo for it this year. A Ching sling and a Galco butt cuff ammo carrier wil round things out. I can't wait until it is done!!! Price for everythin should be around $700.00.