scout rifle question

S

shrewd

New member
so i've got a reasonable beginners collection of firearms (cz75bd, blackhawk 357, marlin 1894c 357, mosin, garand, 10/22, and stag ar15) and i'm quite happy with it. however, as i'm sure many of you know, the bug is never quite sated, and i've recently begun looking into a nice modern bolt gun, and find myself seduced by the new ruger scout rifle.

i like everything about it. the functionality/practicality, the iron sights, forward scope rails, maneuverability, it just seems sweet to me, and thus have i justified adding it to the list.
and i don't even hunt (though i might soon)

anywho, my real question is while this rifle makes me swoon, and i'm a fan of ruger products, are there other big entries in this category that i'm completely unaware of? do savage or winchester have some scout rifle i don't know about?
i'm aware of the m1a scout rifles, which i lust for,especially after firing my m-1, but they're also like 1500. yikes.


teach me!
 
browning

you mentioned a bolt gun, but check out the Browning take-down lever action (BLR) - can be set up for scout mount scope (most are) and is also set up for normal receiver mount. Be sure you can live with the reduce field of view on a scout rifle.
 
i like everything about it. the functionality/practicality, the iron sights, forward scope rails, maneuverability, it just seems sweet to me, and thus have i justified adding it to the list.
and i don't even hunt (though i might soon)
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The Ruger Scout rifle isn't a hunting rifle, although it could be used for hunting. It's a Scout rifle, a rifle design promulgated by Jeff Cooper as a general-purpose rifle. Hunting is one purpose that it might be used for, but it's supposed to be more than a hunting rifle.

As defined by Cooper, the scout rifle is a general purpose rifle capable of striking a single decisive blow on a target of 400 Kg at ranges up to 300 meters.It should weigh no more than three kilograms, have both iron and telescopic sights with a forward mounted scope, have a sling, and a bipod is desirable but not mandatory. Cooper envisioned it as a magazine fed bolt action rifle in a serious caliber such as .308, but also made adjustments for those places where military calibers were proscribed, or for frail individuals.

There have been several attempts by manufacturers to make a Scout rifle. The best known is the Steyr Scout, which Cooper himself owned and used. Savage makes a Scout that seems to meet Cooper's criteria, and the latest is the Ruger Gunsite Scout. Lots of people think it's sweet.

But, to answer your question, Savage does indeed make a Scout rifle. Link Here.
 
I shot a friend's Ruger Scout. My only gripe is the magazine setup. I commonly carry a rifle at the balance point when stalking, and the extended mag doesn't allow that. That problem isn't the case with the Savage Scout. Nor the Steyr, but I think the Steyr is priced too high for my interest.
 
Other than weight, the Lee-Enfield No. 5 fits the bill pretty well. It fits it very well if you don't care to include the scope. When/if I get a No. 5 or some kind of Lee-Enfield sporter, I'm going to convert the loop in front of the magazine well to a sling swivel, get a Ching Sling, and call it good.

I think Cooper regarded optics as optional, as well as the bipod, but believed a good sling, fast reloading (i.e. charger loading and/or detachable magazine, of which the LE has both), and major caliber (I guess .303 is acceptable although I don't know if he mentioned it) as being vital.

Every proposed scout rifle I know is at least a little overweight, but sturdy old wooden stocks don't help. Of course, since I'm far from a real scout, I won't be carrying it far anyway. I sure would love to try an LE with a modern sling; the historically-correct sling for my LE #4 gives me an unpleasant "noose" sensation with the muzzle up.

As to usage, I'm no expert but I scouts are ideal for brush hunting in dangerous bear country. Plenty of power and a good overall rate of fire. I know of no first-hand accounts of hunting with a scout rifle, though. Me, I would/will use mine for the Quixotic practice of competing in 3-gun with no autoloaders!
 
This is a personal opinion only. I am NOT a fan of the scout rifle or scout setups on Bolt Action rifles, SKS, AKs, M1s or M-14s.

It just takes me too long to aquire the scope and then the target.( I think red dots work better) A good bolt action rifle should be able to aquire targets at 300 yards and beyound for that you need serious glass on your rifle (or at least I need it).

I would go with a receiver mounted scope such as this.

SAM_0447.jpg


5 shot group at 100 yards.

image0.jpg


or for less than 250 yards this:

SAM_0319.jpg

Jim
 
Savage makes a Scout. I have one of the early models. Great shooter, and more in line with the overall concept, although its not perfect. You almost have to build your own to get there.

ry%3D400


Oh, and as far as accuracy, this is 20 rounds fired prone, off a bipod at 100 yards with the above rifle, using Nosler 165 grain BT's....

ry%3D400


I had a SOCOM, which can be set up like the Scout with a forward optic. The Springfields are by no means a "scout", no matter what their marketing says. They are just somewhat chopped down M1A's, and thats about it. Big, heavy clunkers, with a forward mounted optic that sits to high to shoot naturally with anyway.

ry%3D400




It just takes me too long to aquire the scope and then the target.
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The trick is to look at the target and not the scope. When you look at the target as you shoulder the rifle, the crosshairs (or dot, depending on what youre using) will appear right where you are looking on the target. Its very fast and natural. Snap shots, even at longer ranges are a breeze.

I also like the forward mounted red dots, and they work in the same manner, just faster.

Both the scope and dots work best, when mounted as low as possible and as near the same plane as the iron sights. The stock on the gun also should be of the iron sight type, and not have a raised comb like the scoped rifles usually have. A shorter LOP is also better than a longer one, which is also usually a trait of the iron sighted stocks.

The biggest advantage to the forward mounted scopes is, you dont get lost in the scope, and you have a much better overall field of view. You shoot both eyes open, and you can see whats going on the whole time. The only real downside Ive seen with them is, you loose some light gathering, and like a peep sight, you can have issues seeing with the sun coming in low over your shoulder from behind.
 
Thanks :)

I understand the "traditionalist" thing too.

For me, a lot of this is dependent on use. For a "general use" gun, the scouts really cant be beat, but like most things "jack of all trades", they arent perfect.
 
This does not match the specs for a genuine scout rifle but it fulfills my need.
It does have:
EER 2X scope with lighted reticle
XS aperture sights with a Merrits adjustable aperture
A cheap sling which will soon be replaced
357 mag will handle my needs at 100 yards or less
I can reload on the fly without putting the rifle out of action
The red lit reticle on the scope makes for very rapid target aquisition during the day but it's too bright past dusk, besides at night it would giveaway your position pretty pronto. Use it with caution. The nicest thing is I still have a regular reticle to use if the batteries fail, unlike a reddot.
BTW the scope is an old Japanese made Tasco Pro Class, not made anymore.

It suits my needs but maybe not yours.

013.jpg
 
i just cant bring myself to scope a lever gun, just can't do it

an asthetics thing, i suppose, as i shoot my buddys 30-30 scoped all the time and have great fun with it.
 
Interesting setup, RonJ. I know nothing about lighted reticles - is it a simple matter to switch it off when it's not needed?

Do you shoot with both eyes open?

Can your rifle accept hot .357 reloads? If so, how hot? (I always thought .357 Maximum would be a great rifle round, esp. in a lever-action that could accept Magnum and .38 Special; not sure if that's been done.)
 
i just cant bring myself to scope a lever gun, just can't do it
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I know the feeling. I tried one on my Winchester Trapper, and hated it. Worked great for its purpose, but just took all the handiness and appeal out of the gun.
 
The 1894 is a strong action and can handle very stiff loads. I've never explored the max pressure limits of the .357. Yes I shoot with both eyes open. The rear turret on the scope is the switch to turn off the light.

Believe me guys, I wouldn't scope that handy little rifle if my eyesight didn't require it. Much beyond 25 yards and the iron sights become problematic, but they are considerably better than the original open sights.
 
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me too

After years of spouting "no scopes on levers", in 12 months or so my peepers have slipped enough that the Williams aperature on my Marlin .357 is a challenge. I've not scoped it, but I guess its on its way to being bamaboy's. Getting old stinks. I'm still pretty firm about no white line spacers on your saddle lever gun.

I've got a Savage scout and have posted about it several times. PawPaw and AK103 are pretty much spot on and I don't think me adding to their comments will accomplish much.

I find the scout scope fast and believe the German #1 reticle in my Leupold 2.5x on my Savage makes it more so.

I hunt my Savage scout for deer often. It is short and light and goes up trees and through the woods easily. The #1 is easily seen even in awful light and superior to a peep. Cal .308 is plenty for anything I will ever hunt.

My Savage is accurate too, I do not have 20 rd groups as posted w/ pics earlier, but several 3-5 rd groups w/ reloads and WW 168 match that are sub MOA

The big box on the Ruger is a turn off for me and were I to have one I'd search for a flushmount 5 rd .

I've not read it prior on this post, so I will add that the forward scope allows slick and easy bolt work on repeat shots and multiple targets. It is also very easy to top the rifle off, full up, or reload w/o dropping the mag if you choose. I am not necessarily a fan of detach boxes for field bolt rifles intended for rough use, consider the Mauser and the Springfield. One less thing to loose .
 
I've toyed with the idea of a scout rifle for many years, and have a friend who bought a Steyr that he used in a Long Range Rifle class at Storm Mountain. I have shot his gun. It's a really fine piece, albeit I too think it is over priced.

That said, I have had for many years a Remington Model Seven in .308 with a 2-7x compact Leupold scope in a conventional mount. I did replace the original walnut stock with an H.S. Precision. No, it doesn't have a scout scope, nor a detachable magazine, nor an integral bipod. But it is light, handy, fast on target, and hits plenty hard. It has been my go-to general purpose hunting rifle for a looong time. Much as I like the scout rifle concept, I just haven't seen enough betterments over my Model Seven to justify buying one.

If I didn't own the Model Seven, I'd probably be looking at the Ruger, too. But I don't know anybody who owns a Model Sevens who isn't tickled by it. It is a very nice compact package and makes a great GP rifle.
 
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Model 7

I hate to name drop, but I think Cooper stated in print at least once that a .308 carbine with a conventional, tidy scope would serve very well as a GP rifle, but not the equal of a scout (according to Cooper)

Finn Aagard said about same in an article in the "Rifleman".
 
bamaranger said:
I hate to name drop, but I think Cooper stated in print at least once that a .308 carbine with a conventional, tidy scope would serve very well as a GP rifle, but not the equal of a scout (according to Cooper)
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Well, Jeff Cooper (pbuh) was the main proponent of the Scout concept, so we'd expect him to say that, and he may have had very good reasons to make those conclusions. It's a rather revolutionary concept, although more and more people are experimenting with it.

What I find interesting is the current trend toward specialized rifles, ie, rifles designed and marketed for a specific task. Tactical rifles, predator rifles, African rifles, hunting rifles, benchrest rifles, etc. In my mind, what Cooper was promulgating is the concept of the general purpose rifle.
 
I was hot for a RGSR until I handled one. I agree with Art, the balance point is not for hand carry. I'll stick with my 1894 and Ruger 77 Compact.
 
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