Scopes???

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dmorgan

Inactive
I have been looking for a new scope for my Savage 10 FCP-SR in 6.5 Creedmoor. Mainly looking for a scope that can be used for both hunting and if/when I wanted to stretch it out for long range fun shooting with friends. I don't have a super dead set budget but I would really like to keep it below $750-$800 mark. Both of the following scopes fall below that mark.

I was in a local gun shop about a month ago and they pulled out a Nikon Black X1000 6-24X50 SF IR in MOA ($600-$650), then the next day or two I say a review video on youtube about a Shepherd Rogue 6-24X50 ($400). I have done a little research on these two, mainly because there is not much info on these two that I have found.

Has anyone used either of these or known anyone who has used one? If so any information, reviews, pros, cons, etc. would be greatly appreciated
 
6X is a tad much for some hunting, since the field of view is a problem when sneaky-snaking or casual walking-hunting. I've found that 10X is plenty good for tight groups at 500 yards; never shot farther, though.
 
The appropriate scope for hunting depends on the game being hunted and the terrain in which one is hunting. A 2x-7x, 2.5x-8x, or 3x-9x will be fine for almost any game in any terrain, e.g., dense timber or high mountains. I've used a 2.5x-8x for many years with great success at ranges from 25 to 400+ yards on pronghorn, whitetail deer, mule deer, elk and one bear. More than 10x is unnecessary for any hunting in the U.S.
 
I'd suggest getting a decent 3-9x variable for hunting and then when you "want to stretch it out" switch to one of the terribly obnoxious and unwieldy higher X scopes.
I bought a rifle with a 6-24x50 scope(good brand too) and found it totally worthless unless really needed for those 500 yard shots which come about twice a year. That optic is sitting on a shelf waiting for a time when I really need to see a fist sized target @ 400 yards. The highest power scope I have that is practical for general use is a 4-16x40.
 
I'd recommend Burris Veracity in either 3-15x or 4-20x.
They also have it in 5-25.

All should be able to be found in your budget, but 5x on low end is awfully high magnification for hunting unless you know all your shots will be 100yards or more.
His is personal preference, and 5 or 6x will surely work at any distance, but trying to quickly find your target 20yds away on 5x or 6x magnification is troublesome to me.

I used to be a big vortex fan, but their scopes in the same price range as others marketed more towards hunting (low light transmission and clarity) are just not as good.
Sure they offer a lot of features for the money, but a lot would never be used in a hunting situation.

I had a vortex Viper PST on a target rifle and it was great. I bought another rifle and then bought a Burris Veracity 4-20x50. After one range trip, I listed the target rifle and vortex scope for sale. Kept the new rifle and Burris as my dual purpose target and hunting rifle. The Burris has a clearer picture and is considerably brighter than the vortex at the same magnification settings.
 
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I would really like to keep it below $750-$800 mark.
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If this is a multi-purpose rifle, a good variable would be the answer. If it is primarily a target scope, a good fixed power scope would be in order. $750 doesn't buy much in the way of target scopes anymore. The two scopes you mentioned are both hunting scopes, pretty good ones but not great. For a bit more you can come up with a Zeiss (which is a really good hunting scope) or a Leupold Mark 6. The Vortex Viper mentioned is a pretty good scope, as well.
 
Fist I am going to assume you are open to spending a little below your max budget. Yes you can step up, but; this is my choice:

Going with that , I recommend the Leupold VXII 6-18AO. I use on my varmint 223 which is plenty of power for any range. I am sure you will be satisfied with this scope.

My 30-06 has a Leupold VXII 4-12x which is just a few dollars more and couple ounces less. More of a mainstram scope, but I think you are looking for a little more glass. Its another great scope. I digress.

Theese two leupold are light weight and excellent internals along with good optics and best warranty anywhere.
 
I'd recommend Burris Veracity in either 3-15x or 4-20x.
They also have it in 5-25.
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I looked at the Burris Veracity too, but one thing that kind of lead me away from it was the M.A.D. knob system. A lot of reviews that I read about them said that they limited the amount of elevation adjustment on the scope. Have you found this to be true precision_shooter?



For a bit more you can come up with a Zeiss (which is a really good hunting scope) or a Leupold Mark 6.
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What model Zeiss would you recommend Scorch?
 
I haven't found any limitations in travel on my Burris. Thing about the MAD system is you have to order it after the fact or not at all if you don't want to use it.
But I also don't see how changing the knob would limit travel.
 
Thing about the MAD system is you have to order it after the fact or not at all if you don't want to use it. But I also don't see how changing the knob would limit travel.
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Gotcha. Do you recommend the MAD system or the standard factory turrets.

I was thinking the same thing that the turrets should not make any difference since they are just calibrated for the caliber and load that I would be shooting.


I added a copy of a review off the Burris website where the owner had a limitation issue with the MAD system. I could be reading the review wrong though. But according to the reading the total adjustment is 60 MOA (30 up and 30 down from center) correct? Could the supposed lack of total adjustment be caused by the zero stop? Any opinions or comments?


3 out of 5 stars.
Garpan· 6 months ago
Excellent value
This is a great scope value. I have 2 xtr ii 8-40's and love them. First focal plane and clear glass on all three but Burris dropped the ball by thinking of the Veracity as just a hunting scope. By not considering us comp. shooters they limited the available 60 moa of elevation to 23.5 moa adjustment in the MAD dials (suppose to be a full 25 but not mine) The physical size is as big as my xtr 8-40, should be shorter. I like the scope but it should/could be so much better.
 
What model Zeiss would you recommend Scorch?
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You can't really go wrong with a Conquest Rapid Z 800, very good scope, super clear, and within the price range you had mentioned. The other would be the Zeiss HD5, and right now several retailers (Cabelas, Midway, Optic Planet) are clearing them out at prices about the same as the Conquest (typically they are about 20% more).
 
If you are hunting anything that can move faster than a slow walk, the wider the field of view, the better. If you are in the woods, or brush, the wider the field of view the better. This means low power.

Variables today are wonderful things, as long as you constantly practice keeping them turned down. If you don't ,trust me, the one time you need that scope on 3x (or less) to find that buck trotting through the brush, in your field of view, so you can actually aim at it, that scope will be on 9x and all you'll see is blurry trees, as the deer heads into the next county.

DO NOT get into the habit of scanning for game with a scope, on ANY power! That's what binoculars and spotting scopes are for. Don't use the rifle scope to look at things, what might be a deer down the draw might be another deer HUNTER, who won't be happy with you pointing a rifle at him...

I wouldn't be, would you???
 
dmorgan, I personally don't use the MAD system. I don't want exposed turrets for a scope mounted on a rifle I'm carrying where the knobs could get moved just from being slung on my shoulder (knobs rubbing against clothes) or could get bumped, banged, or knocked around off trees, rocks etc. I know there is a zero stop for vertical adjustment, but not for windage. The factory turrets can be taken off and reclocked to 0 after sight in. With the MAD you'd set them at 0 after sight in.

Personally I don't want to worry about checking the turrets before taking a shot on an animal. You may not have time to check before your shooting window is closed.

Per the Burris website, the Veracity has 70moa of vertical adjustment (approximately 35 up and 35 down) and 40moa of windage adjustment (20 left and 20 right).

Using the reticle, zeroed at 100 yards, I can make shots out to 400 yards without touching the knobs. Typically I wouldn't take a shot while hunting at more than 300 yards.
With 0 MOA mounts, adjustment will get you to 900 yards assuming your 0 is close to center in the adjustment range. Use a 20moa base and it will get you well beyond 1000 yards shooting to point of aim. Even further using the drop points in the reticle.
 
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Gonna put wheels on it?

I too would recommend a 3-9 if you are going to hunt with the rifle.

Those big target scopes can get heavy, consider that if you plan to hunt.
 
Whenever this topic comes up, I like to point out this article:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/recommended_riflescopes.htm

I found it very useful when trying to compare different product/quality lines from different makers.

On the low end, I found that 3x to 4x is still fine to get a sight picture on deer running by 20 yards away. So if I thought that was too much, I wouldn't be using a scope at all.

I'm not one of those guys who decry scopes above some arbitrary number. Get as much as ya want (in a variable), but just make sure it still has good clarity and image quality on its upper end- a lot of scopes don't.
 
it may be at the high end of you price range but I have two 4.5-30x50 Bushnell 6500 Elite scopes that might fit your needs. After I got the first one, I liked it so much that I bought another one. The power range is really great and fits both the hunting and target needs that I have.

The scope is bright and has a side mounted range adjustment. The low end 4.5x should work for hunting and I use the high end 30X for all my target and load development work.

I have one of them mounted on my Les Baer Super Varmint .223 and the scope supports the amazing accuracy of that rifle. The scope is relatively short for a high power scope so it fits with the 18 inch barrel length.

I believe that I paid just over $800 for each of them.
 
What distance do you consider "long range fun"?
And what's the minimum distance you might need to engage game?

A low-power scope for close range whitetails isn't going to be optimal for 1,000 yard shooting. You're going to be compromising on one end, or the other, unless perhaps you up the budget or manage to find a x7 magnification range like mentioned above.
 
I also have a Bushnell Elite 6500 4.5-30x50, and it does offer a lot of versatility with such a wide range of magnification. I'd consider 4.5x low enough for most any hunting applications where I'd want a scope in the first place. And having the option of 30x is fun for paper punching at extended ranges, and load development. When the target looks like it's right and front of you, and you can easily see the bullet holes, it helps build confidence in your hunting rig.

Though I will say that the optical quality degrades very noticeably at the higher magnifications. It's still OK on a sunny day from the bench rest, but I doubt it would be practical to try picking out game/varmints from the brush at much above 20 power.

And before the naysayers jump in about 30 power, in my defense, I bought the scope before I had Lasik surgery. Because I pretty much needed it just to see what the heck I was shootin' at.
 
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