Scopes, BDC or not?

H

hdm25

New member
I've been messing around with buying a precision rifle and accompanying scope. I need some input on the scope.

I've used a lot of different scopes over the years on rifles but I've never shot at any range greater than a couple of hundred yards, so adjustments for distance on the scope never really made a lot of difference (the deer didn't seem to care). Now that I'm stepping into this new hobby, I am thinking about it a little more.

For true precision, there is no doubt that a scope with smaller incremental adjustments is what is needed. No doubt. HOWEVER, I want to mess around with the whole "sniper" thing and not just try for precision but for fast hits and adjustments at the longer ranges. This leads me to think that the BDC feature would be good.

Leupold's M3 scopes with BDC cams are for (in .308, anyway) a 168 gr bullet at 2,600 fps. This is the weight and speed of Federal Gold Medal Match. IN THEORY, the M3 BDC and this round IN THE PROPER LENGTH BARREL would go hand-in-hand and would work great. The theory is what I'm worried about.

Can anyone fill me in on their experiences with BDC scopes? Are they good for the loads that are stated? I have read reviews by some people that say the BDC are not off enough to matter, even at long ranges, but I would tend to doubt that statement as the range increases.

Anyone?
 
Keep in mind that scopes like the M3 have 1 MOA elevation adjustments, meaning that they are not designed for supreme accuracy. They are intended to make it easy to dial in on a man-sized target at ranges up to 1000 yards under field conditions where it isn't practical to count dozens of .25 MOA clicks.
 
The short answer is no. They aren't really necessairy, but If you like extra things that can break, go for it. If you ask around, I think you'll find that most snipers use MIL-Dot reticles and know where their rifle will hit at any given (reasonable) distance. For long range shooting .5 - 1" is the best, atlease for elevation, I believe that some scopes, possibly Leupold, have .5 elevation and .25 windage, or something like that. Also, be sure to get at least 10 x because less will make everything too small at the longer ranges in the tactical comps I believe you meant by "the whole 'sniper' thing".

Leupold's M3 scopes with BDC cams are for (in .308, anyway) a 168 gr bullet at 2,600 fps. This is the weight and speed of Federal Gold Medal Match.
Click to expand...

Amazing coincidence, huh :rolleyes: ;)
 
Depends what you want to do with it. If you just plan on punching paper and want top accuracy and adjustments get the M1 Leupold with the 1/4 MOA adjustments. If you want to run from 100 to 1000 quick then get the M3 with it's 1 MOA elevation and 1/2 MOA windage adjustments. I just got back from a match in NJ and I used my M3 LR. Could I have dialed in better with the M1, yes. But I just adjusted my aiming point instead of my elevation because with the 1 MOA it would have moved me too high at the 300 yard range. I did well and was happy but the 1/4 MOA would have been nice in this case. For the field on steel at unknown distance I would definately get the M3. For precision get the M1.

The BDC dials themselves sometimes don't line up to the correct yardages because of variations in set ups but are usually pretty close which is what they are supposed to do which is hit a man sized target. Like my 300 yard mark if it's on 300 I'm about a 1 1/2 high. No big deal for man sized targets made of steel but not good for precision. Do some homework like you're doing and then make up your mind which would be best for you.
 
When I was looking for a scope for my precision rifle I decided to get the Leupold Mark-4. The choice came down to the M1 - or M3.

What it boiled down to, at least for me, was that the M3 BDC was cammed (regulated) to only one specific round. My thinking on this is that that is great if you always have access to an unlimited supply of that specific ammo and that was all you were going to shoot.

From a "tactical" aspect what if you run out of Lake City and have to use ball 7.62? The BDC is not set up for that round.

From a "practical" standpoint what if you want to use you precision rifle for beanfield deer hunting? The BDC is not set up for any hunting round.

I chose the M1 with Target Knobs. Set my zero with Fed Match @ 300 yards and come ups/downs for different ranges.

Also worked up knob settings (with zero and come ups/downs) for "plinking ammo" (ie cheap "Mart" ammo) and also for my specific hunting ammo.

I make up range cards for each ammo and keep them handy for ready reference. This allows you to have your zero (and come ups/downs) for any round.

Also, get a Mil-Dot reticle. With practice you can use these to get off fast shots instead of clicking to a specific setting. This is what I use with my hunting round. I've got it zeroed @ 200 yds. For my 100 yard zero I use the bottom of the mildot above the cross hair, for my 300 yard zero I use the first mildot below the cross hair. With the round I'm using it works out perfectly.

Finally, I've got a "Data Book" worked up in Excel format. It includes a Quik Reference chart, Windage Reference, Fed Mat Up/Down Quik Reference, Blank "Zero, Ups/Downs" card (used for the different ammuntion you shoot), Data cards for different target types, range card, and a round count card.

Each page is set up to take up half of an 8.5" x 11" piece of paper so you can print two on each side. If you set it up correctly to print on both sides you can make a nice Data Book. If you want a copy of it e-mail me and I'll send it.
 
These are terrific posts. I use an M3LR on my AWP. One can get cams from Leupold marked in meters or yards. The rifle is designed around the Fed168 round(LC M118 will not chamber.)At 60 degrees F, 1140ft elevation, it chronos 2711fps. The metric cam works great out to ranges where group size is the major obstacle, along with temperature, humidity, wind velocity, air density and operator error. The rifle is capable of quarter minute accuracy; from prone with a bipod, the operator is not. Mike Lau's excellent book The Military and Police Sniper is an excellent read.
Best, Rob
 
I use an M3LR on my AWP. <snip>The rifle is designed around the Fed168 round(LC M118 will not chamber.)
Click to expand...

?!???? My AWP chambers LC fine (also shoots it great). What year is your AWP. Mine is a 94 manufacture. If they are still doing the serial #s the same the first two digets are the year.
 
Mine is 1999 manufacture, they still use the same code. M118 is well into the lands so I have simply pulled the 173s with a collet puller and replaced them with 168s. AI has used three barrel makers so it may depend on which one made the barrel. I was told SPECIFICALLY at the time of purchase that the rifle would not chamber M118. I has no access to M118LR or M118SB so I can't say if they will work, but with the Sierra bullets they should. Interestingly enough Gunny, my Robar will not chamber M118 either. It sure works well in my HK though. Best, Rob
 
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