Scope woes

8

8MM Mauser

New member
Gentlemen,

I am wondering if any of you can help advise me on what sort of lifespan I might expect from a Simmons scope mounted on an 8MM Mauser sporter rifle. This is the only gun I own that I don't shoot with iron sights; and it is my primary big-game hunting rifle.

I originally mounted this scope back in 2007; and though there was a little maneuvering that had to be done later to get it to not shake loose of the base after a hundred rounds or so; it has been reliable and accurate since 2009; as a range gun and hunting rifle. A scope did take some getting used to.

Now; as of last October (my last sight in) I was landing about a two inch group off the bench at 100 yards. The field I hunt in is about 150-180 yards wide with the longest shots being right around 100 yards hence my sight-in at that distance. My whitetail hunting season didn't go particularly well last year (story in another thread) but nevertheless nothing seems to have happened to the gun or scope really. I carried it into the field about 14 separate times over two weeks or so but it was always slung to my back; in my hands or leaning in a purpose built mount next to me.

Last week I brought this gun along with me to the range to confirm it's zero. Well; that didn't go over to well. I set-up the same 100 yard shot from the same bench as last time and fired five rounds downrange. It probably wouldn't have been my best shooting ever (blistering hot day and I had fired a 100 shell trap course and then shot 100 rounds of 9MM and about 200 rounds of 22 already that day) but to my surprise when I approached the target the paper was blank... empty. Not one hit. So I walk back and take five very careful and deliberate shots; making sure to achieve a perfect stable position between each round and land crosshairs right on the bull. Blank paper again.

At this point I started thinking I was losing my mind. So I got out the unsporterized Czech Mauser that came into my possession last year and decided to fire 5 through it before leaving. I only had 5 rounds of 8MM left because I wasn't planning to shoot the rifles a lot (can't afford too really). So I line up about a foot from the bench in a kneeling position with my supporting elbow resting on my knee. I have shot maybe 20 rounds through this rifle since getting it last December. I line up those almost none-existent military sights and shoot five. Four dotted the outside of the outer left ring of the target (about a 7" circle on an 81/2 X 11 paper) and the other landed about an inch low and two inches left of the bull. Not spectacular shooting but I felt OK about it from an 80 year old rifle. In any case it was probably accurate enough to stand in for the sporter this deer season if I can't figure this scope thing out...

Now I knew it wasn't me... If I could make hits with rear sights that meet that definition only technically (milsurp guys know what I'm talking about) but not with a scope sighted in for that distance... i'm thinking I have a scope problem.

Is 8 years and probably 5-600 rounds (mixed PP, S&B and handloads) a long hard life for a $150 Simmons? I have no idea what prompted this sudden loss in accuracy; but I am worried that I'm gonna blow through 50 rounds trying to sight-in a scope that is simply broken. The last time I fired the gun it was very accurate.

So; can you help me TFL? I am just not very familiar with scopes.
 
Check to make sure your rings and base didn't loosen up and shift. Check and make sure the action screws are also to tourqe spec. That would be my start. It's possible that the scope is damaged. Simmons are not known for quality. After you have check for proper tourqe on the action, rings and base start at 50 yards and see if your on paper( bore site if possible) good luck
 
Either your base has gotten loose or the scope has bit it.

You can pull your bolt out and bore sight the rifle and see what you are actually aiming at.

I'm not an expert, but all of my scoped rifles do not need further zero after I've set it.... I always verify. No amount of banging around the truck messes them up
 
frustrating

A rifle that is misbehaving is a genuine bother. I suppose all of us have been there. I'm inclined to think that it may well be the scope, or the mount system as you described some type of issues previous, but there are some checks you can do first.

Check your ammo, is it the same make, bullet weight, etc. Not all rifles handle all makes of ammo well.

I'd check some simple things for tightess: action bedding screws, base/ring screws, and I'd give the rifle a good bore cleaning. If you find any of the previous loose, or the bore heavily fouled, I'd shoot it once for POI and a 3 rd group after correcting the issue. And I'd do that on a large, clean target, so as to see if the rifle is grouping, but well away for POA, or is randomly landing bullets with each shot.

If the rifle does not respond to any tweaks rendered above, or you cannot find an issue with the mentioned checks, I'd obtain (borrow?) a different scope of known integrity, mount it firmly, and shoot for another group on a large clean target. If you get a group, that can be moved to POA, the issue is likely your scope has gone toes up.

Good luck.
 
Here is all I can tell you about scopes, they last as long as they last. All scopes can and will eventually fail since they are mechanical. All you can do is buy a good scope with a good track record, and hopefully the company that makes it will stand behind their product.

I've had good experiences with Burris, Leupold, and Vortex on repair or replacement of defective products. Simmons is now owned by Bushnell so maybe they can do something for you. However I had a Simmons Whitetail scope that failed right out of the box, I didn't bother to do anything with it and it now sits in my junk pile to remind me not to buy a cheap scope. I don't have anything against Simmons I still use an 8 point and had an Atec at one time.

Don't waste anymore ammunition go and get another (new or known good optic from another rifle) scope and put it on the rifle. While you're doing that make sure the bases and rings are still mounted solid. Boresight and go confirm at the range, that's truly the only way to know if it was the scope or something else.
 
Thanks for the advice guys.

The rifle is going to get a genuine and in depth inspection. I do have a boresighter somewhere. The ammo was the same as last year when I sighted it; they are handloads. I might try running a box or two of S&B factory loads through it to see how they hit.

I'm going to try some basic stuff; then see where the heck I am landing from a closer distance: but it might be time to think about another scope... which is a real bummer because I was hoping to put any extra cash towards finishing my AR build this year.

I suppose I would rather have this rifle functioning though then sink more into a rifle that is only half built so far.
 
Is 8 years and probably 5-600 rounds (mixed PP, S&B and handloads) a long hard life for a $150 Simmons?
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I personally, am NOT a Simmons fan. I've seen Simmons scopes go bad much quicker than that.
 
Yeah I was aware of what I was getting myself into. Until now it has been a good scope; I only ever had to re-sight in when switched to different ammo; for example the handloads I'm shooting through right now hit about an inch or so high and to the right of where factory 196 grn. loads from S&B hit.

Still I am going to run a box through it; start at 25 yards; see where 5 hit; then back to 50; then 75; then 100. Sure it'll cost me $25 just to test the rifle but... that's better than laying down a few hundred bucks.

Honestly I've been flirting with the idea of upgrading my scope for a while now with eyes on this Leopold. It's not a huge jump up but with a lifetime warranty and a name like Leopold. I really don't need much in a scope; if this Simmons would perform I am perfectly happy with 3X9 40.
 
Any chance you or someone else dropped it without knowing and that's why it's off. This is the reason I have 2 deer hunting rifles ready to go.

I removed a 20 year old bushnell from my 6.5 Arisaka 6 months ago and it wasn't because it wasn't accurate. It was because I wanted bigger glass and it now lives on another rifle. I replaced it with a simmons 8 point.

Also if recoil effects the screws holding the scope in place I red loctite them in because I don't want them to move. If you need to move them in the future a soldering iron to the screw tip will heat it to the point that removal will be easy.
 
No need to shoot 5 shots @ 25 yards-one will tell you where and how far off your point of impact is.
My guess is your rifle's stock warped(or unwarped whichever it might be)since last deer season throwing your POI way off course. A quick bore sight might answer your questions w/o firing a shot.
I'm not much of a Simmons fan but the failures of these scopes I see most often are related to adjustments vs. simply wandering off zero. By this I mean the adjustments don't track or are unreliable but once zeroed, they hold fairly well. I have maybe 1/2 dozen Simmons in the low to mid price range on rifles that I don't consider critical use guns.
 
I've had 3 simmons scopes, and am not a fan. One was a Pro50 (one of their nicer scopes, but not the nicest) that my Rem 700 in 30-06 broke after probably 500-600 shots. It just quit holding a zero. Each shot it started spreading out more and more to the point were after about 15 shots it wouldn't even stay on a 8.5x11 sheet of paper at 100 yards.

Second was an 8-Point that came on a 243 I bought used. I can't speak to how the previous owner treated it, but it was straight garbage. It was very blurry and didn't track right.

Third is actually the first Simmons I bought. It is a 4x rimfire (I think 22 Magnum is the model) that I am actually very happy with. I've had it for about 24, 25 years. The glass is strangely clear and bright. I can look through it all day and my eye doesn't get tired. My only complaint is now that its older the POI doesn't always change when I adjust the dials. Someone recommended I tap the dials with a quarter or something solid after I make an adjustment because sometimes the internals get stuck. This has always worked for me.

If you are on a budget and looking for a new scope (and we all are to a degree!), I would recommend you look at Vortex. I think they are probably the best for the money at the lower end of the price spectrum.
 
I liked the old Simmons scopes made in the Philippines. I have a 44 mag I bought over 20 years ago that has always lived on a hot loaded 30-06. It lost its nitrogen a couple of years ago but still holds zero, it just fogs up with temp changes. The newer ones I wouldn't waste my time on.
 
Even better option may be to find a vintage weaver on eBay... I have several of these scopes and they all still work well.

I've purchased a stack of weavers from various sellers all for less than the price of one new scope

They would have a nice period look to go with your mouser
 
One of the dangers of buying older vintage scopes no matter how good they may have been when new is that the rubber seals will eventually dry rot. That and the fact that a mid-priced $200 scope today has far better glass than a higher end scope that cost $500 ten years ago.

I've read that about 30 years is pretty much the useful life of most any optic because of the seals going bad. If you buy from a better company such as Leupold the rubber seals can be replaced and they can rebuild the scopes internals for a minimal charge or often for free. Cheaper budget scopes are usually best thrown away after a few years.
 
I bought a used Leupold 3-9x40 at least 17 years ago. It's still as good as the day it was made. It never changes zero. I don't doubt that there is better glass today; but I think we are spoiled for choices these days. How good does a scope really have to be? Well, for me, it would have to be better than a Simmons. I also bought a steel Weaver K4 at the gunshow for $50 that has to be 50 years old or so to mount on an equally old Marlin 22. Just simple crosshairs, but it's entirely reliable so far.
I say, get a basic Leupold, even used, with plain duplex reticle; something light and trim, not one of the big fat jobs so popular today. Get quality mounts and rings from Leupold as well. Put it together nice and tight, sight in to be dead on at 25 yards, recheck at 100 yards, then 200, then 300, making fine adjustments as you go. Get more ammo too. I can't imagine having less than 100 rounds for any rifle.......

I think the old timers of a century ago must have been a lot tougher than we are now. They thought nothing of taking really large game with a 30-30 with iron sights, which we now know, is little better than a spear.
 
You've done well to have your Simmons for that many years. Now, you DESERVE a Leupold VX2, 3-9X. They're only $300 with free shipping at some places on the Internet.

I like the wide-duplex reticle, which has more fine crosshair width than standard, but that's me.

I've got several Simmons scopes mounted on .22LRs, and had a few problems but don't fool around with them for my hunting rifles. I've got 5 Leopold VX scopes and feel the best one for the money is the VX2. They're super clear and tough. Adjustments are accurate and reliable too.
 
I've read that about 30 years is pretty much the useful life of most any optic because of the seals going bad.
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I have a Weaver scope on a Mossberg Model 51 that's around 60 years old and still gets it's share of squirrels
 
I had a Simmons Aaetec on a .300Wby some years ago. It lasted about 300-400 rounds before it let go. When it went, I think everything in it broke. Not sure how that happened but it sounded like a tin can full of rocks.

I don't buy cheap scopes anymore because of that one and a Nikon issue. If you're cheaping out on optics, you can expect it to fail sooner rather than later.
 
I've had Simmons scopes in the past, & my experience mirrors MOBUCK's tracking was not predictable, but once sighted in , they worked for hunting... ( mine were mounted on a 223, & a .243 )

I recently put a new Burris scope on my new Ruger .308, using Ruger's factory rings... apparently I didn't get the rear ring just right, there was a tiny amount of light under one side, even though I had the screw torqued to spec... I found it, when I didn't have enough adjustment in the scope... the ring couldn't have had .003" to .005" worth of space on the one side, so it wouldn't take much play in a mount to put you completely off the target... so I'd check your mounts & rings for tightness & correct positioning... that said, the 8mm is no slouch in the recoil department, & it's just as likely your scope is bad... but it's certainly worth checking the mounts & rings 1st
 
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After working in a sporting goods store for a few months, I formed opinions of a couple brands of products I personally wouldn't trust to use after having seen their failures.

Among that list are Simmons, Tasco, BSA, Sightmark, and cheap Redfields.

I will say that I agree with the other posters that most scope failures I've seen have to do with issues on tracking or adjusting vs. a complete failure to hold a zero like you're describing.

If you decide you want to get another scope in a lower price range, I recommend Bushnell, Nikon, or Vortex.
 
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