When using the Wheeler scope levelers, one level on scope cap the other in the bolt rail with the rifle also leveled. No brainer, until I looked through the scope, does not look level. With everything level I aimed at a vertical leveled stick that I screwed into a tree, the scope is canted. I'm stumped
Scope Leveling
- Thread starter cw308
- Start date
Scope cap and adjustment knob tops are not guaranteed to be parallel with the horizontal crosswire in the reticule; nor exactly 90 degrees away from the vertical one. Neither crosswire's guaranteed to be parallel to the adjustment surfaces the inner tube moves across in both horizontal and vertical axes. They're often several MOA off; even a degree or more.
Damn those manufacturing tolerances; someone oughta tell their Mommy on them.
What I would first do, is clamp/anchor the scope in something virtually immovable, then with the reticule center on some distant object, move the elevation knob from limit to limit. Watch that object's relative distance from the vertical reticule line/wire. If the reticule stays fixed in distance to the object, then the vertical knob's adjustment surface is parallel with the vertical reticule wire. Do the same thing in windage with the horizontal wire.
Let us know how this turns out. Then I'll proceed to the next step.
Later. . . . .
Meanwhile, I read through Wheeler's information on that scope leveler. They assume the flat on the scope mounting base is exactly 90 degrees out from the true vertical axis of the rifle its barrel whips in. And also, that the scope's vertical adjustment knob is exactly 90 degrees away from the windage knob's adjustment surfaces it moves the scope across. While they're close, I doubt they're ever perfect. If one's way off, then so will be the end result.
Damn those manufacturing tolerances; someone oughta tell their Mommy on them.
What I would first do, is clamp/anchor the scope in something virtually immovable, then with the reticule center on some distant object, move the elevation knob from limit to limit. Watch that object's relative distance from the vertical reticule line/wire. If the reticule stays fixed in distance to the object, then the vertical knob's adjustment surface is parallel with the vertical reticule wire. Do the same thing in windage with the horizontal wire.
Let us know how this turns out. Then I'll proceed to the next step.
Later. . . . .
Meanwhile, I read through Wheeler's information on that scope leveler. They assume the flat on the scope mounting base is exactly 90 degrees out from the true vertical axis of the rifle its barrel whips in. And also, that the scope's vertical adjustment knob is exactly 90 degrees away from the windage knob's adjustment surfaces it moves the scope across. While they're close, I doubt they're ever perfect. If one's way off, then so will be the end result.
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Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Scope cap not level/square with scope body, or you screwed up?
I don't use the cap, I use the adjustment screw. That's always level, or close enough in my experience.
Could be scope defect... cross-hair lens not level? I don't know if that happens or not.
Also, make sure the level on the gun is really sitting flat. The design allows for it to tip a bit under it's own weight. I glued a washer on mine for extra weight.
I don't use the cap, I use the adjustment screw. That's always level, or close enough in my experience.
Could be scope defect... cross-hair lens not level? I don't know if that happens or not.
Also, make sure the level on the gun is really sitting flat. The design allows for it to tip a bit under it's own weight. I glued a washer on mine for extra weight.
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FWIW: Scope reticle levelling/plumbing squares the reticle with the receiver, the vertical stadia's extended line running through the centerline of the bore.
If that's so for your rifle, then what you're experiencing is quite common - you're canting the rifle when it's in the held/firing position, most likely due to your personal ergonomics, and not to carelessness.
The plumbing is easily proved via resting the muzzle of an EMPTY rofle on a tabletop covered with a white cloth, positioning the eye directly in the rear of the scope, but viewed with that same ye over the top/center of the butt.
While no "sight picture" will be available using that positioning, the reticle will be readily evident, making it fairly easy to determine if the vertical stadia points at the bore C/L.
.
FWIW: Scope reticle levelling/plumbing squares the reticle with the receiver, the vertical stadia's extended line running through the centerline of the bore.
If that's so for your rifle, then what you're experiencing is quite common - you're canting the rifle when it's in the held/firing position, most likely due to your personal ergonomics, and not to carelessness.
The plumbing is easily proved via resting the muzzle of an EMPTY rofle on a tabletop covered with a white cloth, positioning the eye directly in the rear of the scope, but viewed with that same ye over the top/center of the butt.
While no "sight picture" will be available using that positioning, the reticle will be readily evident, making it fairly easy to determine if the vertical stadia points at the bore C/L.
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Use a plumb-line !!!
The objective is to level or plumb the reticles to the bore of your rifle and not the scope cap, to the bore. The only part of the scope that should come into play, are the reticles. ....
I mount my scope, set the eye relief, then level and secure the rifle. I then look trough my scope at a plumb-line, on the wall, align my vertical reticle with the line. I confirm by backing off and confirm by the old "eye-ball" method you mentioned. Once I have the proper position. I put pencil light indexing lines, in the scope and rings that I can use for future checks, just to make sure my scope isn't moving. Just a habit and it helps ...
I once encountered a scope that when I finished my procedure, the scope cap, was noticeably, out of plumb. I rechecked it just to make sure ....
Be Safe !!!
The objective is to level or plumb the reticles to the bore of your rifle and not the scope cap, to the bore. The only part of the scope that should come into play, are the reticles. ....
I mount my scope, set the eye relief, then level and secure the rifle. I then look trough my scope at a plumb-line, on the wall, align my vertical reticle with the line. I confirm by backing off and confirm by the old "eye-ball" method you mentioned. Once I have the proper position. I put pencil light indexing lines, in the scope and rings that I can use for future checks, just to make sure my scope isn't moving. Just a habit and it helps ...
I once encountered a scope that when I finished my procedure, the scope cap, was noticeably, out of plumb. I rechecked it just to make sure ....
Be Safe !!!
stubbicatt
New member
Sometimes you can get there with a boresighter. Just track the vertical up and down against the backgound of the boresighter, and roll the scope in the rings accordingly to arrive at a level. That *may* not be level with the bottom of the stock, if it is otherwise flat.
What if the scope's centerline is 1/16th inch to one side of a vertical line up from bore center, even when it's parallel to the bore, because of one or more of these:
* Barrel tenon thread's center isn't in the center of nor parallel to the receiver axis.
* Scope base and/or receiver ring/bridge surfaces are not concentric with the bore axis.
"Blueprinting" the entire bolt and receiver is what fixes all of these issues.
Bart B, I ran both reticles top bottom & side-side, they didn't drift. I don't understand why it didn't.The reticle is canted off center. I will send it back to Bushnell after my shooting season as long as I can zero, 200 yards Max.for the Range I go to. The Receiver and bolt was blueprinted with a new Rock Creek M24 5R 11.27 twist by Accurate Ordanance. I changed the one piece mount from IBA, rings come lapped 20 MOA built in. Changed to Ken Farrell mount 0 MOA & low rings. I know there is alot going on at one time. Fired 10 rounds with the new tuned up Rem 700 with a new barrel,ran out of adjustment shot to high. Thats when it all started. Vertical adjustme I know it's not much but I'm not shooting longer than 200 yards. Scope is a Bushnell Elite 6-24x40. Hopeing the new mount set up will help. Thanks for all the help. Chris
Not every reticle is actually stadia wires anymore. Many are printed on or etched into glass.
If the a printed/etched reticle is not installed correctly, it can still track correctly when adjusted by the turrets. If it is a BDC reticle, I wouldn't trust the range drop hashmarks.
Jimro
If the a printed/etched reticle is not installed correctly, it can still track correctly when adjusted by the turrets. If it is a BDC reticle, I wouldn't trust the range drop hashmarks.
Jimro
cw308 sez:
Easy to fix by taking the cell out then putting it back in correctly oriented, but it's proof that scope wasn't assembled right.
Good news is the adjustments are exactly 90 degrees apart as is the reticule lines/wires.
That means the vertical wire/line isn't parallel with the windage adjustment's surface it slides up and down on. Same thing for the horizontal one. That happens when the reticule cell's top where the upper end of the vertical line/wire is ain't at exactly the 12 o-clock position in the scope. Kind of like a clock face twisted one hour off to the left so when it's actually 11 AM the clock face says it's high noon. But the reticule center's still where it should be and it's probably the axis/point the reticule cell's twisted around to.
Easy to fix by taking the cell out then putting it back in correctly oriented, but it's proof that scope wasn't assembled right.
Good news is the adjustments are exactly 90 degrees apart as is the reticule lines/wires.
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4runnerman
New member
What Brian said- Take the caps off. Caps are usually rounded on top.
I've found that it works best for me to set the eye distance and get the alignment close, with the scope loose enough to turn in the rings.
Then, standing, I set the (unloaded) rifle butt on the floor with the stock toward me and look through the objective to see if the vertical crosshair is pointed perfectly at the bore center and stock toe. I turn the scope until it's perfect, then check everything by mounting the rifle before tightening the ring screws...and again afterwards.
Then, standing, I set the (unloaded) rifle butt on the floor with the stock toward me and look through the objective to see if the vertical crosshair is pointed perfectly at the bore center and stock toe. I turn the scope until it's perfect, then check everything by mounting the rifle before tightening the ring screws...and again afterwards.
With the new rings & base, I will see if I can zero at 100 & 200 yards, if I can I will send it back to bushnell to correct the cant when the summer is over. In the colder months I shoot 22 indoors for trigger time with a CZ 452 varmint. 308 is my favorite, started shooting that round in my GI days with the M14 & M60 1967 VN, we go back a long way.Then shooting was just aim squeeze the trigger hit the target. I know now it's so much more, I love benchrest shooting. Thanks for all your help, I will let you know how I made out if I can get in some time tomorrow. Chris
what I've done mounting a scope--
put rifle stock in vertical alignment with x-y axis of linolium of kitchen floor--
set scope horizontal wire parallel to horizontal line of kitchen floor linoleum looking through the objective of the scope toward the ocular--
When horizontal stadia is parallel with floor, tighten screws of scope mounts.
This sets the scope to rifle vertical/horizontal settings, after that you can bore sight. Don't need no stinking level-level-level gizmos.
put rifle stock in vertical alignment with x-y axis of linolium of kitchen floor--
set scope horizontal wire parallel to horizontal line of kitchen floor linoleum looking through the objective of the scope toward the ocular--
When horizontal stadia is parallel with floor, tighten screws of scope mounts.
This sets the scope to rifle vertical/horizontal settings, after that you can bore sight. Don't need no stinking level-level-level gizmos.
Sunday morning range trip. Zeroed in 3 rounds, new rings & base from Ken Farrell worked great. I only shoot 200 yards, once I'm on I make very small adjustments, due to different load changes, bullet stays the same Sierra 168 gr. hpbt, so I think I'm OK. Thanks again all. Chris