Schumer says:1% of FFL's sell 45% of crime guns

abruzzi

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The Dealers
In Many Crimes, Trail Leads To a Tiny Fraction of Stores
By Barbara Vobejda and Sharon Walsh
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, June 8, 1999; Page A01

One percent of the nation's gun dealers sold nearly half of the guns used in crime last year and many of those businesses show up year after year as major sources of crime weapons, according to a new study of federal firearms data.

The study conducted by the office of Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) marks a new phase of a growing effort to hold firearms dealers responsible for gun violence. Schumer's office used government data to locate sellers of weapons traced in crimes nationwide between 1996 and 1998 and found a pattern of "gun store recidivism" -- repeated crime-gun sales by a small number of stores.

The study also found that Virginia ranked third in the nation as a source of weapons used by criminals in other states and was the leading out-of-state source of firearms for crimes committed in New York State.

Some gun dealers may have shown up simply because they conduct a high volume of sales, the report said, but "others are likely to be stores that criminals and straw purchasers have discovered are lax with state and federal gun laws." Schumer's report did not take into account guns linked to crimes as a percentage of a dealer's total gun sales.

The federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, which supplied the data to Schumer, did not dispute the findings in the report but said they took no part in the analysis.

Several local gun businesses were among what Schumer called the 137 "bad apple" dealers who had sold more than 50 crime guns last year. A Forestville, Md. dealer, for example, was the source of 493 guns used in crimes since 1996, and nearly half of those crimes were committed in states other than Maryland, the report found.

An Alexandria dealer accounted for 241 guns used in crimes from 1996 through 1998, and a Silver Spring store sold 121 crime guns over that period.

The ATF information supplied to Schumer is publicly available but does not include the names of the gun dealers. The agency has refused to release information about specific gun dealers involved in crime-gun sales, saying to do so would jeopardize its criminal investigations.

The information comes at a time when the nation is keenly focused on the role of guns in society, prompted by the shootings at Columbine High School and a contentious debate over gun control underway in Congress. The report will likely add momentum to a growing number of lawsuits filed by cities, which argue that gun manufacturers and dealers are not taking adequate steps to ensure the firearms they sell are safe and do not fall into the hands of criminals or children.

The study found that 45 percent of the weapons used in crimes in 1998 had come from 1,160 gun dealers, roughly 1 percent of the more than 100,000 federally licensed gun dealers in the country.

"For the first time, we're targeting the few bad gun dealers who provide a disproportionate number of guns used in crimes," said Schumer, whose office analyzed ATF data to determine where the highest number of crime guns were sold. "A store that sells 1,000 guns used in crimes is not a business, it's a menace to society."

Jeff Roehm, a spokesman for ATF, said his agency uses the same data to investigate arms trafficking, but he and other experts cautioned that dealers may show up in the report only because they sell so many guns. "The fact that crime guns come back to a dealer is not a definitive indicator of criminal activity," he said. "Some have been inspected and are operating perfectly legitimately."

James J. Baker, chief lobbyist for the National Rifle Association, questioned why, if the data points to a problem with dealers, the sellers are not prosecuted.

"If they're not prosecuted, either [ATF] is not doing their job or there's no reason to prosecute them," he said.

Baker and others said guns often pass through many hands before they are used in crimes, making it difficult to hold dealers responsible.

Schumer, however, argued that it is not accidental that specific dealers have more guns traced to crimes.

"It's clear that a certain number of gun dealers look the other way," he said. "Those who use those guns in crimes know them and go to them. . . . I believe these dealers should be susceptible to lawsuits."

Dealers may not do the appropriate background checks or they may sell to the underaged or to a "straw purchaser" buying for someone prohibited from owning a gun.

Virginia and Maryland are among three states -- the other is North Carolina -- that limit purchasers to one gun per month. In Virginia, which has a long history as a supplier of crime guns used in other states, the 1993 passage of the one-gun-a-month law is cited by officials as a promising effort to stem gun sales.

"We're trying to use the laws in Virginia to get guns used in crimes off the streets," said Lila Young, a spokesperson for Virginia Gov. James S. Gilmore III (R). She said Gilmore has stepped up prosecution of gun violations.

Schumer said his office will forward the results of the new study to plaintiffs' lawyers around the country who represent cities and individuals suing gun manufacturers and dealers.

"I think this gives them the most powerful evidence yet," he said.

In a groundbreaking case in Brooklyn this year, Hamilton v. Accu-Tek, a jury held for the first time that gun companies and sellers were culpable. Denise Dunleavy, a trial attorney for plaintiffs in that case, called the Schumer study "incredible."

"The manufacturers and distributors have always had the ability to find out who these retailers are," Dunleavy said. "We say it starts at the top. The manufacturers should shut off all the rights of these retailers."

Ninety percent of all guns used in crime in New York came from other states and 50 percent of those came from five states with weak gun laws, Dunleavy said.

Schumer said he will also introduce legislation that would place more reporting requirements on dealers that sell 10 or more crime guns in a year.

His bill would also give the ATF the power to computerize records about gun dealers who sell high volumes of crime guns. Currently, ATF is prohibited from computerizing many records.

Among the dealers cited by the report was a store in West Milwaukee, Wis., that had sold 1,195 guns traced to crimes between 1996 and 1998. One store in Riverdale, Ill., had been the source of 1,176 crime guns. In Virginia, 10 dealers each sold more than 50 guns traced to crimes last year and in Maryland, six dealers sold that many crime guns.

The study said most of the stores are in suburbs or rural areas far from where the crimes are committed. It also reported that 23 of the 137 stores had either gone out of business or had their licenses revoked by ATF.

Law enforcement officials said there are two Alexandria dealers that conduct a high volume of gun sales, but neither has been found to violate any laws.


Staff writers David B. Ottaway, Patricia Davis and Craig Whitlock contributed to this report.

Selling to Criminals

One percent of the nation's gun dealers sold half of the guns used in crimes last year, according to a report by Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.).

States that sold the most crime guns in 1998 and number of dealers responsible for these sales.

State Crime guns Dealers

Indiana 5,119 15

Illinois 4,287 10

Georgia 3,726 15

Virginia 2,971 10

California 2,468 12

Florida 2,422 17

Ohio 1,801 7

Maryland 1,678 6

Wisconsin 1,625 3

Tennessee 1,509 9

Texas 1,500 10

SOURCES: Sen. Charles E. Schumer, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.
 
Interesting statistic.I have to agree with James Baker.If they have done wrong,nail them. Otherwise what is the significance of the figures.

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
The problem with statistics like these is that their only purpose is to be mis-used ... ad nauseum.
I wonder how much they had to stretch the scope of this "investigation" to be able to pull in a whopping 1% of gun dealers as criminal suppliers?
It will be interesting to see how many of these dealers are actually charged with criminal wrongdoing, let alone prosecuted and convicted.
If you applied the same investigative criteria to the number of swimming pool companies that sell their products to people who ultimately drown in them you would probably come up with some interesting "statistics". So what?! Does that make the guy who dug the whole in your backyard responsible if you can't swim?
It's curious to note that Schumer plans to forward this information to the plaintiffs currently engaged in lawsuits against the firearms industry. One would think that if this data had any credible value, law enforcement officials would be the primary recipients.
Of course, these are the type of "facts" that would not be admissible as evidence in anything but a kangaroo court, but they do lend themselves nicely to that shallow educational tool that appeals to those too lazy to think for themselves, the soundbite.
 
SENATOR SCHUMER SAYS 99% OF ALL FIREARMS DEALERS ARE HONEST!

In a scathing and surprising show of support for American firearms dealers, Senator Shumer today acknowledged only a very few "bad apples" are not honest, upstanding Americans.

Senator Schumer stated today that a few firearms dealers are supplying nearly half the firearms used in violent or potentially violent crimes. The vast majority of Federal Firearms Licensed dealers appear to be honest Americans providing a valuable service to their fellow man.

Senator Schumer went on to suggest those few who abuse their right to buy and sell firearms should have their sales methods scrutinized to see if their actions warrant further investigation.

This is a suprising turnaround for the Senator from New York - admitting the vast majority of licensed firearms dealers are honest tradesmen who must be protected from those who abuse their trade. His level-headed support for honest business people is refreshing in these troubled times.

Giggly Grump

What could have been....

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited June 08, 1999).]
 
Dennis,

You need to be on staff at AP--or at least write their headlines. Then, maybe, those who wish to restrict Americans rights-- might just wise up.
 
Got to thinking about my last post--while legally those of us in the USA have those rights, I might have expressed myself better had I called them Human Rights.
 
And %1 of our populace is responsible for the far majority of crime (repeat offenders).
And %99 of guns will never be used in a crime.
That is standard statistics...you will always have a bad seed to ruin it for everyone.
It just shows that...freedom isn't THAT expensive, we just have to put up with the lowly %1 in order that the other %99 get to be free.
 
From: Ivan8883 6-9-99 858PmEDt How any Patriotic American can quote anything from that Senator SCUMER who stands for everything that Patriotic Americans despise(gun confiscation,one world govermentand foreign domination of our nation,and destruction of our Bill of Rights) is beyond me! Scum like Scumer and other trash in the Senate are leading proponents of the Global Plantation being set up here and elsewhere in the world. JUst thinking of scum like Scumer makes me want to vomit! the American people are going to pay a horrible price for allowing the Senate of the United States to be taken over by such filth! If I sound p.o. I am as I think of the consequences facing our nation now Ivan
 
Ivan...
Chill out, now! Last warning

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
For what it's worth, I purchased my first hand gun over the internet in March of this year after reading an article in the NYT in which Schumer criticized the sale of firearms over the net. Reading is not necessarily believing. As the Godfather used to say, stay close to your friends. And stay even closer to your enemies.
 
From: Ivan8883 635PM EDT 6-10-99 D.C., I am a bit perplexed with your reaction to my comments about our Senators,not just the one from the Empire State, and what they are doing to not only our gun rights but to other parts of the Bill of Rightswhich are God given to us ,not GOVERNMENT given.THese Senators are elected to serve the peoples interests not the other way around and it galls me to no end how they are trashing the system the Founding Fathers left for us.Before 1913, the Senate was elected by the State Legislators and I believe we can see why the Founders did not want Senators to be popularly elected( they are in for 6 year terms and they seem to stay in for Decades, using public funds to stay in power) Would I be mistaken if the Founders came back today and saw THE U.S. Senate who is in it and how it was set up and elected,would their comments be worse than mine? They probably would be more upset BECAUSE WE CHANGED THE SYSTEM IN 1913! Your comments would be appreciated THanks Ivan
 
I think it would be interesting to see just what the firearms are that he's referring to. When I first saw this headline my thoughts immediately went to one store I know of that appears to sell any firearm you could want, as long as it's around $100 or so- Raven, Jennings, Lorcin, Maverick shotguns, etc.(My impression of the store and what these guns are worth). I'd think that the sales from this type of store would be the ones that would stand out statistically. I hope this isn't too convoluted, just kind of thinking out loud.
 
A Follow Up to the Schumer 1% Article
______________________________________

Crime Guns Flow From Md. Shop, Data Show
By Craig Whitlock
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, June 11, 1999; Page A01

The Washington region's biggest source of guns that are used in crimes is a drab, two-story brick house that sits along a decaying commercial strip in Prince George's County, according to federal law enforcement data.

Nestled between a pest exterminator and a fast-food joint on Marlboro Pike in Forestville, Realco Guns is a tiny shop that gets crowded if more than three customers show up at once. A half-dozen display cases feature a modest inventory of knives, handguns, rifles and shooting accessories, along with a smattering of literature from the National Rifle Association.

Yet according to data from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, Realco was the source of 493 guns that were used in crimes from 1996 through 1998, more than double the number of crime guns that were traced to any other dealer in the region.

The weapons most frequently traced to Realco are Davis .380-caliber and Hi-Point 9mm semiautomatic pistols, along with Chinese-made SKS 7.62mm semiautomatic rifles, law enforcement officials said. The Davis .380-caliber retails for about $100, and the Hi-Point 9mm sells for $125 to $150.

Davis .380-caliber pistols are especially popular among young criminals in the District. A 1999 ATF study of crime guns recovered in Washington found that it was the gun most frequently recovered in connection with crimes committed by people younger than 25.

ATF tracing records show also that the guns from Realco are used in crimes relatively soon after they leave the shop. In 1997, about three-quarters of crime guns that were traced to Realco had been sold by the store within the previous three years. Researchers believe that such a fast turnaround from legal purchase to use in a crime is an indicator of potential firearms trafficking.

Realco's owner, Greg del Real, of Rockville, said he steadfastly obeys all laws governing the sale of firearms and goes beyond legal requirements to discourage the flow of weapons to criminals. He would not say how many guns his business sells in a year.

Federal, state and local officials said Realco has not been prosecuted or cited for any violations.

But Realco's track record of supplying guns that later end up in the hands of criminals has attracted the attention of law enforcement agencies that investigate gun trafficking. Others are questioning whether gun dealers like Realco should be more vigilant about where their lethal products might go after they leave the store.

This week, Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) released a study showing that 1 percent of the nation's firearms dealers sold nearly half the guns used in crimes last year. The study, based on data on firearms that were traced by the ATF, criticized dealers that were the source of a high number of crime guns and called for a crackdown on "bad apples" that funnel weapons to the black market.

Data show that Realco is among the top 15 gun dealers in the nation that were the source of crime guns from 1996 through 1998.

Del Real and his younger brother, Carlos, who works as a manager at Realco, disputed the results of Schumer's study and the ATF data indicating that the store was the source of 493 crime guns traced from 1996 through 1998.

Waving a sheaf of papers to prove his point, Carlos del Real said store records showed that the ATF had traced only about 360 guns sold by the store since 1990. He acknowledged that his list might be incomplete.

ATF officials declined to comment on Realco or on Schumer's study, although they did not dispute the findings of his report. ATF spokesman Jeffrey Roehm said that of the 200,000 guns traced through his agency last year, the "vast majority" were involved in a crime.

Schumer's study also found that there were 10 gun dealers in Virginia and six in Maryland that sold more than 50 crime guns last year, although the report did not name the businesses.

Among them were an Alexandria dealer that sold 241 guns used in crimes from 1996 through 1998, and a Silver Spring store that sold 121 crime guns during the same period.

Law enforcement sources said there are two businesses in Alexandria that conduct a high volume of gun sales, but neither has been known to violate federal laws. The heads of both of those businesses said the report was not referring to them. Law enforcement sources said the Silver Spring gun dealer referred to in Schumer's report was Atlantic Guns, which has stores in Rockville and Silver Spring.

Atlantic Guns owner Steve Schneider said the ATF was bound to trace some guns back to his stores because the company has been in business for 50 years and is a high-volume dealer.

"The data is being used to make it sound like there's something wrong with the dealers, and nothing could be further from the truth," said Schneider, who is president of the Maryland Licensed Firearms Dealers Association. "We run a very reputable shop, as any law enforcement agency will tell you."

Schumer's study showed that nearly half the guns traced to Realco were used to commit crimes out of state. Law enforcement officials said that was not surprising, given Realco's location less than three miles east of the District, where the sale of handguns is banned.

Realco (REE-al-co) Guns has been in business on Marlboro Pike for more than 25 years. Greg del Real, 56, said he's not surprised that some of his weapons eventually fall into the wrong hands.

"We're next to Washington, D.C., which is a high-crime area," he said. "We're in Prince George's County, which is a high-crime area. More guns get stolen in high-crime areas."

But del Real said it is not his fault. He said his store goes to great lengths to screen its customers and is fastidious about keeping and submitting the proper paperwork for criminal background checks. He said his managers keep a keen eye out for straw purchasers -- customers with clean records who buy guns and immediately hand them over to people not eligible to possess them.

"Occasionally, they will be successful in making a straw purchase, despite everything we do to prevent that," he said in an interview this week. "Every time we suspect we have a straw purchaser in the store, we kick them out. We lose a lot of sales that way. . . . We step all over these people's constitutional rights to prevent these straw purchases."

"The intent of the law is to prevent guns from falling into the wrong hands, and we do everything we can to prevent that from occurring," Carlos del Real said. "I work really hard to abide by all these [regulations]. I would tell Chuck Schumer that he's lucky to have us here enforcing the laws."

Greg del Real said ATF officials spent a week in the store last month to conduct an audit of Realco's firearms sales records but found nothing wrong. "They have never found any fault with our business," he said.

Lt. Jack Simpson, of the Maryland State Police crime-gun enforcement unit, said that Realco may be following the letter of the law but that it could do more to dissuade straw purchasers and other suspicious customers.

"They have the right to refuse a sale, and they ought to start using that right," Simpson said. "They run their business; we don't. For them to turn a blind eye to things that are clearly criminal is a shame.

"They get calls every day from the ATF for a trace, so this isn't a surprise to them by any stretch. This is not a shock to them."

The del Reals estimated that they receive fewer than 10 calls a month from ATF officials attempting to trace guns sold at the store. They also argued that just because the ATF traces a gun doesn't necessarily mean the firearm was used to commit a crime.

The ATF's Roehm said that the bureau looks at the number of traces back to a particular retailer as a potential sign that a dealer is acting illegally, but said "the fact that crime guns come back to a dealer is not a definitive indicator of criminal activity."

ATF agents and other experts cited several reasons a dealer may have many guns traced back to it: a high volume of sales, its location in a neighborhood where guns are common, or its frequent use by straw purchasers.

"It can be a variety of things that have nothing to do with the dealers," said Glenn Pierce, co-director of Northeastern University's Criminal Justice Policy Research Center. Nevertheless, he added, identifying dealers that are the source of many crime guns is a valuable tool to allow the ATF to target certain neighborhoods in its investigations.

Stephen Richards, whose family owns Potomac Arms Corp., Alexandria's largest firearms dealer, located on the waterfront in Old Town, said he doubted his company is the dealer noted in Schumer's report. "If those numbers are correct, it's not us," he said.

Richards said that ATF officials conduct an estimated 30 traces a year on guns that his business has sold, dating back to 1958. The store sells about 1,000 handguns a year, accounting for roughly half its firearms sales, he said.

"There is little doubt in my mind that there are criminal dealers out there who will intentionally sell to non-qualified buyers," Richards said. "I'd like to see them all in prison tomorrow -- they make me look bad. We, Potomac Arms, are extra conservative in our sales. If there's a hint of a straw purchase, we don't make the sale."

David MacGillivray, the president and CEO of Interarms, which is located down the street from Potomac Arms, said he doubted the study was referring to his company. Interams is not a gun dealer, but an importer of firearms, selling to about 25 or 30 wholesalers around the country, he said.

MacGillivray said his business sells a large quantity of firearms -- as many as 200,000 a year at one point, and about half that in recent years -- and that ATF officials routinely conduct traces, as many as 25 or 30 a day. "We follow all the regulations and obey all the laws," he said.
 
I'm not trying to defend this "Realco" dealer, if they are knowingly selling to criminals they should pay for their actions.
There are two statements from Abruzzi's last post that bother me.
"Realco should be more vigilant about where their lethal products might go after they leave the store".
"They have a right to refuse a sale, and they ought to start using that right".
I'm wondering how, exactly, they are expected to comply with these "guidelines"?
Unless they actually hear criminal plans being discussed by a potential buyer, or they hire a staff psychic to read their customer's minds, there is no way for them to determine the future use of the firearms they sell.
Barring that kind of information, how does one legally refuse a sale?
Didn't Denny's get their butts sued off for not serving all their customers equally?
It doesn't take a psychic to guess which side of that lawsuit the ACLU would come down on.
 
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