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School me on ammo please!
- Thread starter bspillman
- Start date
Most generally, three different specifications are given by the manufacturer for a given cartridge loading: the weight of the bullet expressed in grains (1/7000 of a pound abbreviated as gr), the velocity of the bullet at the muzzle of the manufacturer's test barrel expressed in feet per second (abbreviated as fps) and the kinetic energy of the bullet at the muzzle of the test barrel expressed in foot-pounds (commonly abbreviated as ft lbs or fpe). Sometimes, particularly when the ammunition is produced in countries other than the United States, these specifications may be expressed in different units of measure. European ammunition often lists bullet weight in grams (g), velocity in meters per second (m/sec), and kinetic energy in joules (j). One must remember, however, that while the units of measure are different, what they are actually measuring are still the same (weight, velocity, and kinetic energy).
If we use your example of the .380 Auto and pick a given loading, say a Winchester Silvertip, we see that Winchester advertises an 85 grain bullet with a muzzle velocity of 1000 feet per second from a 3.75 inch test barrel that produces 189 foot-pounds of kinetic energy at the muzzle of the 3.75 inch test barrel.
Now, as far as what makes a given cartridge or loading "better" than another, that is a topic which continues to be hotly debated. If we compare, for example the Winchester Silvertip .45 ACP loading to the aforementioned Silvertip .380, we find that while the velocity is the same (1000 fps), it has a much heavier bullet (185 gr) and substantially more energy (411 ft lbs). Some would say that the extra energy of the .45 ACP loading makes it "better" as in more effective at incapacitating someone/something than the .380 Auto. Others would say that the extra weight (which generally yields deeper penetration) and/or the larger diameter(.451" vs. .355") of the .45 make it "better" than the .380. Still others might feel that the reduced recoil of the .380 Auto makes it easier to shoot well and thus trumps the greater mass, diameter, penetration, and energy of the .45 ACP.
If we use your example of the .380 Auto and pick a given loading, say a Winchester Silvertip, we see that Winchester advertises an 85 grain bullet with a muzzle velocity of 1000 feet per second from a 3.75 inch test barrel that produces 189 foot-pounds of kinetic energy at the muzzle of the 3.75 inch test barrel.
Now, as far as what makes a given cartridge or loading "better" than another, that is a topic which continues to be hotly debated. If we compare, for example the Winchester Silvertip .45 ACP loading to the aforementioned Silvertip .380, we find that while the velocity is the same (1000 fps), it has a much heavier bullet (185 gr) and substantially more energy (411 ft lbs). Some would say that the extra energy of the .45 ACP loading makes it "better" as in more effective at incapacitating someone/something than the .380 Auto. Others would say that the extra weight (which generally yields deeper penetration) and/or the larger diameter(.451" vs. .355") of the .45 make it "better" than the .380. Still others might feel that the reduced recoil of the .380 Auto makes it easier to shoot well and thus trumps the greater mass, diameter, penetration, and energy of the .45 ACP.
4runnerman
New member
dbc3- Your right and wrong kinda. You want to practice as much as you feel you need to ,but- Make sure you can shoot your defense ammo as well as the cheap stuff. They will have different POI''s. It's a catch 22 so to say.
g.willikers
New member
On the other hand, when practicing and trying to perfect things, the focus is on the gun and one's technique.
When the situation is about survival, generally one of surprise and close quarters, the focus is all on the threat.
Things like recoil, trigger effort, muzzle blast, point of impact and such, are not going to matter as much as just winning the fight.
While the expected effect of different types of ammo might prove to be of importance, the type used for regular practice probably is not.
Just use plenty.
When the situation is about survival, generally one of surprise and close quarters, the focus is all on the threat.
Things like recoil, trigger effort, muzzle blast, point of impact and such, are not going to matter as much as just winning the fight.
While the expected effect of different types of ammo might prove to be of importance, the type used for regular practice probably is not.
Just use plenty.
Define "better ammo".
If talking for self-defense, all handguns are relatively poor "stoppers" regardless of caliber or bullet used. Shot placement and sufficient penetration are paramount, all else is secondary.
Using your .380 cap as an example, the cartridge simply isn't powerful enough to provide both sufficient penetration and decent expansion, so I'd choose sufficient penetration if needbe.
With more powerful cartridges it's possible to combine both sufficient penetration and decent expansion but there are exotic rounds out there (Glaser Safety Slug, MagSafe, etc) that sacrifice sufficient penetration for overexpansion resulting in nasty surface wounds that can fail to reach the vitals.
HTH...
Tomac
If talking for self-defense, all handguns are relatively poor "stoppers" regardless of caliber or bullet used. Shot placement and sufficient penetration are paramount, all else is secondary.
Using your .380 cap as an example, the cartridge simply isn't powerful enough to provide both sufficient penetration and decent expansion, so I'd choose sufficient penetration if needbe.
With more powerful cartridges it's possible to combine both sufficient penetration and decent expansion but there are exotic rounds out there (Glaser Safety Slug, MagSafe, etc) that sacrifice sufficient penetration for overexpansion resulting in nasty surface wounds that can fail to reach the vitals.
HTH...
Tomac
If you talk to 10 people about ammo, chances are very good that you will get 10 differing views and opinions.
No different than if you ask 10 people about guns. For self defense, try not to get all wound up over velocities, grains and ballistics. Even the weight of the bullet is subjective at best.
No one bullet is going to be so much more superior than another, that it will make all the difference in the world. If that were true, we'd all being buying the same brand / model of round.
What I will say, is to stick to a major-brand manufacturer and go from there. I would never use re-loads for self-defense, be it a private or commercial supplier.
No different than if you ask 10 people about guns. For self defense, try not to get all wound up over velocities, grains and ballistics. Even the weight of the bullet is subjective at best.
No one bullet is going to be so much more superior than another, that it will make all the difference in the world. If that were true, we'd all being buying the same brand / model of round.
What I will say, is to stick to a major-brand manufacturer and go from there. I would never use re-loads for self-defense, be it a private or commercial supplier.
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Dragline45
New member
What's desirable in a hollow point round for self defense is adequate penetration with reliable expansion. Generally the heavier the round, the slower it moves, the lighter the round, the faster it moves. If a round is too heavy and slow, it may not expand reliably. If a round is too light, it may expand but not penetrate enough.
Everyone has their favorite rounds so like previously mentioned if you ask 10 people you can get 10 different answers.
Personally, I don't get too caught up in it all. I am far more concerned with A. does it feed reliably in my gun, and B. does it shoot to point of aim. If the round does this, and is made by a reputable manufacturer, that's good enough for me. Generally though I like to be somewhere in the middle, not too light, not too heavy. You get a good balance of weight and velocity giving you both reliable expansion and adequate penetration.
Although with .380 there is a very fine line between the two. It's a relatively low pressure round and a low weight. Just a bit too heavy and the round isn't being pushed fast enough to expand reliably, just a bit too light and it may expand reliably but you can lack in penetration. This is why you will see many people opt for FMJ rounds with the .380 to ensure reliable penetration, where it is almost never the case with rounds like the 9mm or .40.
Everyone has their favorite rounds so like previously mentioned if you ask 10 people you can get 10 different answers.
Personally, I don't get too caught up in it all. I am far more concerned with A. does it feed reliably in my gun, and B. does it shoot to point of aim. If the round does this, and is made by a reputable manufacturer, that's good enough for me. Generally though I like to be somewhere in the middle, not too light, not too heavy. You get a good balance of weight and velocity giving you both reliable expansion and adequate penetration.
Although with .380 there is a very fine line between the two. It's a relatively low pressure round and a low weight. Just a bit too heavy and the round isn't being pushed fast enough to expand reliably, just a bit too light and it may expand reliably but you can lack in penetration. This is why you will see many people opt for FMJ rounds with the .380 to ensure reliable penetration, where it is almost never the case with rounds like the 9mm or .40.
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