School: Filet Knife Hissy Fit

R

RickD

Moderator
The music teacher gets some fishing kits donated and the filet knives inside cause the Principal to go nuts....

You may wish to speak with them.

Rick


A few google searches and we have fodder for activism.

http://www.germantown.k12.wi.us/gto...partments2.html

info@germantown.k12.wi.us

Janet Barnes, Principal. 262-253-3400 or 262-253-3406
jnbarnes@germantown.k12.wi.us

Fax 262-253-3492

Barry Berstein, Asst. Principal 262-253-3412
bbernstein@germantown.k12.wi.us

Phil Datka (Temp Asst. Principal) 262-253-2414
pdatka@germantown.k12.wi.us

Joel Farrin (Temp Asst. Principal) 262-502-7291
jfarren@germantown.k12.wi.us

Jack Klebesadel, Activities Director 262-253-3415
jklebesadel@germantown.k12.wi.us

Band leader under fire for the eeeevil fishing kits:
Jim Barnes, Music Dept. Chair
jbarnes@germantown.k12.wi.us

http://www.germantown.k12.wi.us/schoolboard.html

GEORGE SLOAN, School Board President 262-253-6865
gsloan@germantown.k12.wi.us

BRUCE WARNIMONT, School Board Vice President 262-242-9631
bwarnimont@germantown.k12.wi.us

--------------------------------------------------------

http://www.jsonline.com/news/ozwash...asp?source=tmj4

Germantown - A high school band fund-raising effort has been halted
by School District officials because the fishing kits that were to be
sold contain 6-inch filet knives.

School Board President George Sloan said he's baffled why anyone
would organize a fund-raising project that involved knives as one of
the items being sold.

"You can't have an arsenal on school property. And 2,000 knives is an
arsenal," Sloan said. "It was meant as a good thing. But it was an
act of extreme dumbness."

Ted Lind, president of the Wisconsin Council of Sport Fishing
Organizations, said the fuss over the knives is silly. He said he
opposes allowing knives on school property but sees nothing wrong
with selling them to raise money for a worthwhile project.
--more skool silliness snipped--
 
Obviously, this is completely in line with the liberal "Catch-and-release/ don't-harm-the-fishies" cause. Too bad the students (as always) will be the ones to suffer because of this.
 
I guess I must be a liberal. :rolleyes:

Selling ultra sharp 6" knives to students IS dumb. High school students are the ultimate contrived weapon experts. When I was in school I recall projectiles made from pencils, rulers and rubber bands, plastic bag closures and yo-yos (the bag ties and yo-yos had to be banned from school grounds after a few people were very minorly hurt). The kid in the locker next to mine made a battle axe in shop class, which he punched through another locker door. Students would steal noxious chemicals from chemistry class and use them for pranks. And I went to a GOOD school.

Anyone who thinks you can sell even 20 filet knives on school grounds and not have SOME incident is a fool. Kids are extremely inventive and don't think through consequences very well.
 
Did any of you e-mail or call yet?

I guess you would disapprove of this TFL thread detailing years worth of Lawful Guns In School stories.

We had people with shotguns in their lockers, and vehicles. (I had a hunting bow with broadheads in the Phys Ed office). Applying your logic, there must have been several deaths each year. Alas for you, there were none in the 12-year span when I attended the school.

Rick
 
I got a response

That didn't take long.
Good morning,
Actually, this is a gross misrepresentation of what occurred and I am
distressed that our excellent school has been so demeaned in the press.
Please visit our website (www.germantown.k12.wi.us) to learn about our
school and school district. You'll see that we are reasonable and our
students are prepared for the best post- graduate schools in the
country.

Janet Barnes

Janet N. Barnes, Principal
Germantown High School
W180 N11501 River Lane
Germantown, Wisconsin 53022
(262) 253-3400
Click to expand...
 
Actually, I'd say that a gun is probably less likely to be used in a school. One doesn't expect to set off a small explosion in a hallway and get away with it.

But a fillet knife will whip through a school banner in seconds without attacting attention. And because of that, someone will think of it and do it.

I still remember high school well enough to know exactly how something like this would go - if you don't believe me, that's all you. High schoolers don't turn into killers at the drop of a hat, but they are rarely above some minor vandalism.

Perhaps you think blowguns would have been a better fundraiser? Throwing stars? Or maybe cherry bombs? Certainly students wouldn't abuse such items if sold in schools? :rolleyes:


This really isn't a rights thing. Anyone who spends a moment thinking about the situation and the people involved would realize that the chances of the knives being abused is almost 100%. Some battles are worthy, this isn't one. Championing selling filet knives at a school makes us sound like idiots. Win the battle - lose the war.
 
I believe that the 'kits' were to be sold by students in the band to members of the community as a fund raiser.

I used to work in a Juvenile Corrections Center. We had some very bad kids who would fashion weapons from just about anything. The options were plain...monitor the environment, conduct weapons sweeps and come down really hard on offeders OR have everyone walk around buck nekkid in an empty building.

Its impossible to sterilize an environment from potential weapons. Zero tolerance bozos in the schools deserve all the headaches they get.

That being said, though, the teacher who chose this fund raising package could have chosen more wisely. Maybe next time, he'll go with magazines.
 
No can do on magazines either, the student can papercut his enemy's throat :barf:

I remember hearing about one school around here, you could come to school with your shotgun or rifle for hunting afterwards, it had to stay in your trunk, usually the Phys Ed teach would come out, assure it was in a case, not loaded and you turned your trunk key over to him until the end of the day.

They ever come to think about how easily it'd be for someone to come into school with their trumpet or trombone case packing? The metal detector will pick it up but you know whomever would be monitoring it would just ignore it as a band instrument. Hell I had a utility knife in my case because I always trimmed my reeds before putting it on the mouth piece.

/sigh and I only graduated three years ago....and its already changed this much :mad:

What's next, the complete removal of shop class because they need these "deadly weapons" to teach. No disecting either...too sharp of blades. Ever tried to cut up a frog with a wodden spoon?
 
But a fillet knife will whip through a school banner in seconds without attacting attention. And because of that, someone will think of it and do it.
Click to expand...
I carried a Barlow in my pocket from about sixth grade on. I never saw a "banner cut" nor would I have needed a knife to do so when it could be done by hand or with scissors from my art class kit I kept in my desk.

Handy has forgotten when children were given some responsibility and were found to thrive on it. Now they (and we) are treated like toddlers and have found their growth to be wanting.

You can defend the decision against selling of filet knives (they were kept in fishing kits in boxes in the music director's storage), but it is derived from the same "Zero Tolerance" mind-numbed theory as the ban on banning finger guns and chicken strip guns or merely uttering the word, "bang !!"

The antis want people like Handy to give up. Because when Handy comes back later, he will find that he has already given the antis the footing they need to expand beyond to some other category. Gotta stop 'em now, and take back territory. As Patton said, "This is not a holding action. We are advancing at all times."


Rick
 
This just in...

I got a pleasant e-mail from one of the many school-boarders I e-mailed yesterday....
Subject: You're a f#$king idiot
Sender: wisbbfan@yahoo.com

Stay in Arizona, moron!
Click to expand...
This e-mail came to me from a member of the school board, school administration, or perhaps one of their close pals. I forward this to all of them so they can see with whom they associate.

Here is what I just sent them:
This e-mail came to me from a member of the school board, school administration, or perhaps one of your close pals. I forward this so you can see with whom you associate. Perhaps those of bb's political persuasion think that others can't be trusted with common kitchen implements because (s)he thinks others share the same emotional instability.
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Handy didn't forget anything, Handy was raised that way.

But Handy observes that isn't what this is about. This isn't a case of taking away knives that parents authorized and taught their children to be responsible with. This is about loosing a bunch of ultra sharp knives to anyone with extra lunch money. You'll pardon Handy if he fails to see what that has to do with encouraging responsible behavior in random youth.


RickD, if you were principal and had one even slightly bloody accident with the knives you authorized sold on school grounds, how would you react? Do you think lecturing the jury at your lawsuit proceedings about encouraging responsibility would be an effective defense? Do you think the school board would applaud your sound judgment and choose to only fault the 15 year old???

Or would they be right in thinking you took a completely unnecessary risk for the sake of a really bad fundraising idea?


I understand that you wish that kids were more like Wally and the Beav, but they're not and have never been. My Dad's friends were blowing up school toilets with cherry bombs in the early '60s, and they were the good kids. WAKE UP!


I can't believe anyone would question the principals judgment on something this dumb, then spam him with a thousand poorly thought out emails demanding the rights of teenagers to have personal filet knives in school. :rolleyes: No wonder we're not taken seriously and called gun nuts.
 
Just got off the phone with my bro. His Boy Scout Troop sold dinnerware (including steak knives) in school. The Horror. The Horror.
This is about loosing a bunch of ultra sharp knives to anyone with extra lunch money.
Click to expand...
This is about loosing a bunch of ultra sharp knives to anyone with extra lunch money.[/quote] There are already sharp things in school. Didn't you read the article? Why would a kid spend $10 on a fishing kit to get a knife when he could get one from home or Home Ec class? It would be like objecting to selling a portable tool set and having one in a car in the school parking lot. Should tire irons be banned as well? Lot's of bad things can happen. What about all that gas? Molotov cocktails.

How would the Principal handle a cut finger in Biology I? Shop class?
for the sake of a really bad fundraising idea?
Click to expand...
It's a really GOOD fund raising idea (and they'll still be sold, if you bothered to read the story). Someone donates $10,000 (wholesale) for the kits...I've tried to raise money for school activities. That money goes a long way. And guess what? My last fund raising project (October) was for a high school rifle team. They now have six accurized Rock River Arms National Match A2 rifles. Bad thing or good thing?
thought out emails demanding the rights of teenagers to have personal filet knives in school.
Click to expand...
If you read the article, it had nothing to do with selling knives to kids. It had to do with storing the knives on school property. The knives are now off school property and will likely be sold for a substantial gain to the school music program.

So much nay-saying to activism. Yours is an easy job.

Rick
 
The only ban I see here is on the discretion and judgment of the school principal.


But maybe with "activism" we can all win the right to store filet knives on school grounds! What a triumph for personal freedoms.
 
Contrary to the original post, the principal did not go nuts.

On top of that, I do not understand the inclination to mount some sort of phone and email campaign to give the principal and school district input on a situation that does not actually affect any of the TFL members who have posted in this thread so far. What business is it of ours to mount such a campaign about the district's policies on things such as knives? Given you don't have kids in the school district concerned, then your kids won't be in that situation with knives. What business is it of yours to suggest students (most of whom are minors) should allowed to be in a situation where there are knives present and without first consulting the kids' parents?

If you were so inclined to react to this issue, then why didn't you bother to be critical of the policy BEFORE the incident occurred? Granted, you probably did not know specifically about this school district, but not allowing knives on campus is a fairly common policy across the US.

I have to agree with Handy, if you want to be an activist, they pick a real issue and I would add that you should pick an issue that actually pertains to you.

The only unreasonable aspect to the situation that I see is the lack of intelligent problem solving for the matter. All that needs to be done is to remove the knives from the kits and then let the kids sell them as planned.

And Rick, I did read the article. Actually, I read three different versions that were online.

Now, I have a question for you. Did you read the article? Apparently not. Had you read the article, then you would have known that the issue is NOT about storing the kits and knives on school property. Nowhere in the article does it say the issue is about storage on school property. In fact, the only mention of storage was the fact that the band leader is now storing the kits in is own garage. Also contrary to your perspective is the aspect that the issue is most definitely about selling the kits, the kits containing knives and the fact that knives are not allowed on the campus.

Since you were critical of Handy's comments and extrapolated his reasoning, I will extrapolate your reasoning equally. Following your logic, we should just go ahead and complain about all school/school district rules.
 
If you want to be an activist, find a real cause.
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I take 'em as I get 'em. If you don't want to do anything, fine. That won't stop the rest of us. Apparently the school is getting a little bit of heat all of a sudden. ;)
What a triumph for personal freedoms.
Click to expand...
"Zero Brains" rules are a major pet peeve of many here at TFL and elsewhere. Fighting it over steak knives, pocket knives, butter knives, chicken-finger-guns, whatever... it's a good thing.
I do not understand the inclination to mount some sort of phone and email campaign
Click to expand...
I'm not asking you to understand it. The fact is that others *do* understand it and are taking action. The school is feeling the heat and with any luck this school will spread the news to other schools...it's likely the first time these guys have gotten a contrary view up-side their heads.
What business is it of ours to mount such a campaign about the district's policies on things such as knives?
Click to expand...
This is a national issue. It goes on in nearly every school. Ever wonder how "Zero Tolerance" and other mass movements get started? Big wigs attend nationl conferences and some speaker who has been making the rounds of the rubber chicken circuit spouts his wisdom about "Zero Tolerance" or "sex education" or bond issues for sports stadiums, etc, etc. They think it's national. It's high time we realize it and take action.
If you were so inclined to react to this issue, then why didn't you bother to be critical of the policy BEFORE the incident occurred?
Click to expand...
That's about the dumbest question I've read here at TFL. The fact is that I and others have been set off by Zero Tolerance nonsense for years. When the story is publicized and it comes with a handy link to a story and contact info on a web page, viola -- I get busy.
you should pick an issue that actually pertains to you.
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You've got mighty big juevos tellin' me what I should and shouldn't get involved with, bub. The fact that they are getting e-mails and calls from all over the country scares the crap out of them. Trust me, I know. I've done this before (even in my own back yard). Do a search on Rick DeStephens and gun and see what you come up with.
Had you read the article, then you would have known that the issue is NOT about storing the kits and knives on school property. Nowhere in the article does it say the issue is about storage on school property.
Click to expand...
Oh, really? ---->
The truck was hauling 2,200 of the kits, and Principal Janet Barnes (no relation to Jim Barnes) said she learned about the filet knives after the truck driver brought it to her attention.

"The semi-driver was the one who said, 'Do you know that there are filet knives in those?' " Janet Barnes said. "I immediately said, 'They're not coming in the school.' "
Click to expand...
and --->
"You can't have an arsenal on school property. And 2,000 knives is an arsenal," Sloan said. "It was meant as a good thing. But it was an act of extreme dumbness."
Click to expand...
Lastly:
Following your logic, we should just go ahead and complain about all school/school district rules.
Click to expand...
I think I shouldn't waste my time debating someone who doesn't have a grasp of the facts nor an understanding of grassroots political activism.

Rick
 
The fact that they are getting e-mails and calls from all over the country scares the crap out of them.
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There's a telling statement. You are scaring the crap out of someone: An educator with at least a master's degree who's responsibility is to the kids and parents. Because you and the other yahoos have a pet peeve about having rules (what a bummer, man), you are undermining the authority of a trained professional.

IF he were to give in to your silly demands and throw out the judgment that he was hired to have, will you and the 'grassroots' boys be there to raise a legal fund if it goes wrong? Yeah... sure.

It can only be with the ultimate ego that you've come to believe that you have a vote when it comes to how a man discharges HIS responsibilities at work. Repeat, HIS responsibilities.

The ultimate foolishness here is that you aren't helping guarantee anyone's rights, you aren't making anyone's life better. All you're doing is harrassing one man, whom you've never met, about one decision he's made that you disagree with. My God, I hope none of the decisions I make at my job are open to your purview.

Come to think of it, I made someone salute me the other day! Bring on the emails! It's a zero brain saluting rule!!!!


Hey Rick, we would all enjoy reviewing some of the work decisions that you've made lately. We'd all just like to check and make sure we agree, and that none of them seem zero brainish. If we find any, we'll post all your contact info on the internet, and encourage any dumbass with an internet connection to put his two cents in. Probably get a couple of poorly spelled threats, too.
 
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