Scared SH!tless at the range

K

Kevinw

Moderator
Well the other day I had an experience that changed my view of range safety. I go to an Unmanned range in the state forestry here in Indiana. It is a 100 yard range with a small stream separating the Benches from the range. You have to go down small incline coming up from the range then across the stream. There are three hills at 25,50, and 75 yards than are staggered and then the Cliff face that forms the Backstop is at 100 yards. There are 4 tables(5?) and two others were taken. Well I checked to see if anyone would mind if I went to set up my targets. They were fine with this so I started down the incline and they all put their guns down with open bolts etc..
What I had not noticed was the car that pulled up in the parking lot. Just as I got to the bottom I hear a string of shots.. Ok so I am the cautious type. I always take a gun with me down range. This time it was my Beretta M9/92FS I had it drawn when I heard the first shot. I didn't know what was going on and had the some cover do to how steep the incline was Well two punk kids had pulled up in an old car and one had a 22 over the top of the car taking shots at some of the cans that were set up down range. Keep in mind that the Parking lot is behind and to the right of the benches. I would say about 10 feet or so. Now this kid proceeds to empty a 10 round mag from a 10/22 and is laughing his head off.
His buddy is sitting there laughing as well I hear them say "did you see him duck" Ok by now I was pissed. They thought it was funny. The one who had shot yelled something like "oops sorry man" or something equally ignorant. Now I had my gun trained on them and I don’t think they had seen it. I still wasn't sure what they would do. I also saw that the two guys who had been at the table next to mine had their pistols out. It was about now that the punks noticed that there were three Pissed off men with drawn guns standing there looking at them. They slapped smiles on their face and got out a couple of gun cases then went to a bench like nothing had happened. I got back up to the tables and talked to the people at the table next to me. The three of us (guns now holstered) went over to the table where these kids where. I would say they were not even 18 yet. (Daddy’s guns I bet) We asked them nicely to leave. They refused and told us to get lost. I told them that if they didn't leave I would file Charges against them. It took 5 minutes to get it through their heads that you can't shoot at someone EVEN at a gun range. They seemed to think they did nothing wrong. Finally they left after mouthing off some more. I got the plate number and description of the car. I have a good description of them. And I have 4 witnesses. The two men who had also drawn and a nice couple who were on the bench farthest from the Lot with thier little girl.(would she make 5?) Now my questions are this.

1. Did I (and the other guys) do right by drawing down on them. Yeah they had shot but I don't think they were shooting at me in hindsight.

2. Should I file a police report on this? As I said I have witnesses and enough information on these boys for police to find them.

3. Has anyone else EVER seen anyone this stupid before? I almost hope not because the thought of any more people like these two out there is just frightening.

I found this to be an eye opening experience. Yes I have seen some idiots at the range. The people who thought they knew something but really knew nothing. You know the type. But never have I met anyone with such a reckless disregard for someone else’s safety. Nor anyone with such an uncaring attitude. Personally I was tempted to take their guns and beat them over the head with them. I say theirs cause way take a chance on damaging mine on worthless garbage like them. :)
 
1. Probably not, but what else are you supposed to do?

2. Failing to follow proper range eitquite is not yet a crime. Unless you can prove criminal intentions (hard to do with just witnesses but no evidence), they probably can't charge them with anything and two more gun owners look bad to the world.

3. Every damn time I go out shooting. Trap and Skeet clubs are the worst. Elderly men and women who view their guns as little more than sporting equipment or fishing tackle... scary!

I no longer set up targets at public ranges as it's just not worth the risk. Whenever you get more than three people at a public range you can pretty much guarantee that not all of them understand the rules. The private rifle clubs around here are a little better but not much.
 
You said you heard them say something like "look at him duck"? I would press charges if I could. This might make it a safer world for all of us and give anti-gunners one less example of why people should not have guns. Did you call the police and explore the possibilities? What did the witnesses think you should do? You handled yourselve with great self control, more than they deserved. I would have had my gun unholstered too.
My wife and I where hiking up the side of a mountain in heavy brush with some clear spots. I heard gun shots from down below and looked as three guys were shooting into the side of the mountain directly at us. One was throwing cans up into the air and one was shooting at them with a rifle or shotgun. I drew my Glock 27 and fired one shot into a dead tree. I waved as they looked up into the clearing and I waved my hat. They waved back and put their guns down. We quickly cut short our hike and walked down. I also was carrying a select grade HK91 and would have returned fire if they continued. I would not have missed. Granted this was in a remote place but one should always know your backstop. They said nothing as we walked by them. No sorrys.
 
Poisonous morons like this belong in jail. I'd get together with my fellow targets and bring those pinheads up on charges.

:mad:
barf.gif
:mad:
 
Yes to all of the above. 1)You didn't know who was shooting and at what at the time you drew the gun, so I think it was the right thing to do. 2) It seems to me that this could fall into the "Reckless Endangerment" area. I'd at least call the local Sherrif or the IDNR and see what they have to say. I would think DNR has jurisdiction. 3)Once saw someone start shooting at Atterbury's trap range, while a maintenance crew was mowing it.
Eric

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Formerly Puddle Pirate.
Teach a kid to shoot.
It annoys the antis.
"But Officer I HAVE to have all these guns in the truck, I'm going to TFL End of Summer Meet"
 
I think you were right to draw your sidearm, and I would agree with filing charges.

Whether the charges stick or not, there is a certain psychological benefit for young men, and their fathers, to have such discussions with LEO's. By the time they're done, they should have an even greater realization that this was a very dumb idea.

I'm glad you're alright.

Regards from AZ
 
I'd have put a couple of rounds into their car. When the LEO's showed I'd of stuck to my guns and said you thought you were being fired on, which you were. PERIOD. Guns aren't toys and do not f-around with them around me. PERIOD!!!
 
I think you were right to draw on them, you didn't know what was going down. I probably would also file charges, esp. if any of the other witnesses heard them say "look at him duck" to back up your claim.

Thankfully I haven't seen anything that stupid yet, but I'm sure my time will come. I'm just glad no one was hurt!

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"At last we shall reveal ourselves to the Gun-Grabbers, at last we shall have revenge at The TFL End of Summer Meet on August 12 & 13, 2000..."
 
There is a distinction between being a "criminal" and being a "dumba$$" even though the results can be the same.
Do you think they saw you BEFORE they fired? If so then criminal charges could apply. Otherwise they were in need of some training.
You mentioned they might have been young and that you had their tag no. What about a contact with the parents? If the parents are dumba$$es too, maybe charges against them too?

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
1. Drawing gun on them? Yes. While you did not know if they were shooting at you, they were shooting toward you (if I read your post right). Drawing a gun was cautionary and therefore appropriate. Besides, who is to say they were not shooting at you? Just because they missed doesn't mean they weren't shooting at you. How would you know? Drawing was a defensive act on your part and justified.
2. Yes, file a report. Can't hurt anyway. JJR suggested that not following range etiquette is not against the law. This sort of correct, but missing some detail. Ranges are provided for the controlled discharge of firearms in designated areas. The boys may have been "at the range," but were not "in the range." The distinction here is that they were shooting from the parking lot, a pulbic area and not a range area. Hence, they recklessly discharged a firearm. Your state may also have "endangerment" laws that would coincide with the reckless discharge laws.
3. I have seen ignorant behavior at a range, but not arrogant and stupid behavior like what you described.
 
Kevin,
I know the place you're talking about. ALWAYS keep a loaded pistol on you when you're there. More s*** goes on down there than most people know. The idiots that have gotten kicked out of all the other ranges in the state head down there. A friend of mine had a close call there also. Be careful!

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Refuse to be a "helpless" victim.
Knowing Your Rights WAGC in Indiana
Come have some fun at theTFL End of Summer Meet, August 12th & 13th, 2000
 
I would have reported it. These buttheads will cause more trouble in the future, and getting them fitted with a noose (first charge and conviction) would probably be the best thing. They need to have their unrestricted unsupervised access to Daddy's guns curtailed. Frankly, a stint in jail might be just the thing to shake 'em up.

How long's it been? I'd say let it go if it was more than 2 weeks ago. Otherwise, it's your decision.

Regarding your pistol being drawn, you can articulate that they intended to threaten you with a deadly weapon? You can articulate that you were afraid for your life? You were legally carrying?

Yes? Then you did fine.

My only problem is that you let them leave with their weapons, and that it took 'em 5 minutes. Surely SOMEONE had a cell phone?

I personally think that safe responsible shooters owe it to the community at large and the community of shooters to turn in and prosecute such slobbish, criminal activities.

Regards,

Matt
 
Hey guys.. Thanks for all the replies. ok First thing is that I think said one of them said "did you see he duck". It could also have been a question to the other guy asking if the other he saw me. I really can't say for sure.. They were to far away to be %100 sure, But it Sounded like "did you see him duck" Also I have still be trying to figure out if they saw me. The car could have blocked his LoS to me. Now to me this changes nothing from the stupidity side of it. They still recklessly endangered other people.
The range is in a Valley that blocks any hope of using a cell phone so calling anyone was out.. And I will admit that the thought of any kind of citizens arrest as someone suggested has never crossed my mind..
I have however been mulling over in my mind on what to do now about it... That is why I finally posted. I really didn't know. But I think I will go ahead and file a Police report, see where they want to take it. Thanks for the advice guys.

Hey Blueyedog are you from near this area? If so we should go shooting sometime.

[This message has been edited by Kevinw (edited June 05, 2000).]
 
Let me get this straight. You were down range and some punks knowingly fired in your general direction? Then said "did you see him duck?"
If true you let them off way too easy.
 
I agree with eve3rything above, and will only add that if you got their license plate #, try to track them down and contact thier parents. With any luck you may get ahold of a Dad who can apply the proper amount of foot to a$$ (lord knows mine would have, probably the #1 reason I never did anything like that)
 
Were it me, I would have been really tempted to take the guns away from these dummies, turn them in to State or Local cops or DNR or Game Dept, making a full report and complaint against these individuals.

Suspect that the cops themselves might have some questions to ask, when someone tried to recalim the firearms in question.

Understand that a cell phone woul;d not have worked, but a CB radio might have, if one was available.

[This message has been edited by alan (edited June 05, 2000).]
 
You were absolutely right in drawing your weapon. It would have been difficult to prove that they were shooting to hurt you, but since there were witnesses they would have been in trouble with the law. It would be a wise thing report it to the police, and also get in touch with the witnesses (hope you got their telephone #s)
"Beavis and Butthead" here give the rest of us a bad name.I am glad you did not return fire and excercised restraint. It would have been tragic if anyone actually got shot(even "Beavis & Butthed").
Regards,
Anand.
 
.22 cal ammo is illegal for a person under the age of 21 to possess, because its considered handgun ammo, yes they had a 10/22
rifle but unsupervised by a adult, I'd still
report this all to the state police, parents
would be contacted and may lose their 10/22
because of what the kids did, what if they
had shot you?or what happens to someone else
when these dumbass's show up again?its your
resonsibility!!!
 
Siggy, I assume you were jesting. However, just in case some lurker takes that seriously, putting a 'couple of rounds into their car' would be a very foolish idea. Sometimes 'empty' cars can contain children and other precious things.

Know your target, and what's beyond it (and, inside it, in this case).

Regards from AZ
 
In addition to pressing criminal charges, I would contact the meanest attorney I could find and file suit against those little monsters or their wretched excuses for parents.
 
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