scandium frame 1911

G

Gulfcowboy

New member
I've been looking at lightweight 1911s for concealed carry as of late. When looking at them I had some things I wanted. A commander size, and preferably a series 70. This being my first scandium frame 1911 I narrowed it down to two a s&w e-series scandium frame and a ruger lightweight commander. The s&w comands a higher price. Its also has good reviews. The ruger has a lower price point, but has some nice features like a titanium reinforced feed ramp. I already have a steel ruger commander, and love it. If any has any experience with either of these two pistols any feedback would be appreciated.
 
No firearm is "aluminum." The lightweights are all aluminum alloy of some type, sort, or description. And that includes the S&W "Scandium" pistols. They are NOT made of Scandium; they are an aluminum alloy that has a trace of Scandium in the alloy, along with a bunch of other elements. A long time ago I came across an article that gave the breakdown of S&W's Scandium alloy but I can't find it now. All the references I find now just say that the alloy contains "a trace" of Scandium.
 
Aguila Blanca said:
No firearm is "aluminum." The lightweights are all aluminum alloy of some type, sort, or description. And that includes the S&W "Scandium" pistols. They are NOT made of Scandium; they are an aluminum alloy that has a trace of Scandium in the alloy, along with a bunch of other elements. A long time ago I came across an article that gave the breakdown of S&W's Scandium alloy but I can't find it now. All the references I find now just say that the alloy contains "a trace" of Scandium.
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Thanks. That's some great information.
 
Pure Scandium costs $7,000 per pound. An alloy 1911 weighs in at about 28 ounces. If the alloy frame of a 1911 pistol weighs 10 ounces (a guess), that's .625 pounds. You can go from there to figure out that there isn't a lot of Scandium in the alloy. If it was 1 percent, that would be $43.75 just for the Scandium component in the alloy. I think it's a lot lower than 1 percent.
 
S&W's decision to pick a trace element in it's aluminum alloy and suggest that element made their guns super-special was pure marketing genius.
 
Have , and carry, a Ruger lwgt commander in heavy shirt season. Many nice features include traditional recoil plug assembly, no funky internal safetys, milled in place plunger tube, feed ramp insert, very nice sights, light weight and decent trigger. Changed out the barrel for a 5 incher, which allows 5 in carry at lighter weight. Much better accuracy with the aftermarket barrel, and it dropped in. It has been reliable.

In addition, the slide edges are not sharp, so it doesn't need much to not wear down the frame excessively. Have found sharp steel slides can wear alloy frames pdq, and not having a ramped barrel or insert can mangle the feed ramp with sharp mag followers/hp's.

Carried 3 oclock in Theis heavy cowhide with FBI slant and untucked heavy shirt.
 
As noted above Scandium is a trace element in alloy used by S&W. As I recall, 0.6 - 0.7% is typical content in a Scandium - Aluminum aircraft alloy. Scandium increases strength, is an anti-brittleness agent, and has anti-oxidation properties. It's useful, but other Aluminum alloys achieve the same properties with no Scandium.
 
According to Smith and Wesson's patent for using scandium allow in firearm frames, they use 0.05% to 0.15% scandium (amongst other materials) that yield strengths of 82 to 100 KSI, tensile strengths of 88 to 106 KSI.
 
S&W's decision to pick a trace element in it's aluminum alloy and suggest that element made their guns super-special was pure marketing genius.
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To be fair, adding a very small amount of scandium to aluminum can more than double the strength of the resulting metal compared to the original. From what I can tell, no other known metal can provide as much strength increase to an aluminum alloy for a given amount added.

It also provides other advantages including dramatically improved fatigue properties.

http://www.dunand.northwestern.edu/refs/files/JOM-0302-35.pdf

As for the amount added, it's in the same neighborhood as the amount of carbon added to pure iron to change it to medium carbon steel, a material with considerable strength advantage over iron.

A small amount alloying material dramatically changing the properties of the resulting metal is not at all uncommon.
 
JohnKSa said:
To be fair, adding a very small amount of scandium to aluminum can more than double the strength of the resulting metal compared to the original. From what I can tell, no other known metal can provide as much strength increase to an aluminum alloy for a given amount added.
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Titanium runs a very close second. And is far less expensive.
 
JohnKSA said:
To be fair, adding a very small amount of scandium to aluminum can more than double the strength of the resulting metal compared to the original. From what I can tell, no other known metal can provide as much strength increase to an aluminum alloy for a given amount added.
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S&W did not market an "aluminum alloy frame" with desirable properties, but a "Scandium alloy frame." The virtues of the material were secondary when very few people had any knowledge of Scandium or its characteristics - the name was exotic and used as a selling point.
 
Stress on a 1911 frame is relatively low. I've seen reports of tens of thousands of rounds through an aluminum alloy frame with no issues. Of course, that isn't a guarantee.

When buying an aluminum alloy framed 1911, the biggest concern, IMO, is whether the feed ramp is anodized or if it has a ramped (steel) barrel or steel ramp insert. The battering on an anodized feed ramp will roughen up the ramp quickly and can result in less reliable feeding, though the gun may function reliably for a long time. Here are comparison photos of feed ramps from another forum: https://www.defensivecarry.com/foru...698-1911-colt-cco-upgrades-2.html#post3870224

An anodized ramp cannot be polished. Bottom line, if you get an aluminum (and probably scandium) frame, get one with a ramped barrel or steel ramp insert for longevity.

Added: From a quick search, a titanium ramp appears to be a pretty good choice so that would be an advantage of the Ruger.
 
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Aguila Blanca said:
No firearm is "aluminum." The lightweights are all aluminum alloy of some type, sort, or description. And that includes the S&W "Scandium" pistols. They are NOT made of Scandium; they are an aluminum alloy that has a trace of Scandium in the alloy, along with a bunch of other elements. A long time ago I came across an article that gave the breakdown of S&W's Scandium alloy but I can't find it now. All the references I find now just say that the alloy contains "a trace" of Scandium.
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There are few if any, products made from pure elemental Aluminum. When one says, an "aluminum" frame, one assumes that they are referring to an Aluminum alloy.
 
Throughout my LEO career and for a number of years after retirement my off duty and concealed carry gun was a Colt Commander. That is the original alloy framed version.

I always practiced extensively with my carry gun so I fired them a lot. I've never been into +P for the 45 ACP so all my Commanders shot nothing heavier than Ball.

I had three of them because the frames cracked on each one after a while. When the third one cracked (in three places) I gave up on the alloy Commander concept. I'm now shooting and carrying a Glock 30 and a Glock 36. Nothing has cracked or failed on the Glocks.

I prefer shooting the Commanders and miss their slim, flat profile but they have not proven to be reliable long term. YMMV!

Dave
 
I own a S&W 1911 E-series aluminum/scandium alloy commander length in .45ACP.

Could not be happier. I shoot it for IDPA a few times per year. Buy yourself some more magazines, preferably Wilson Combat. I like the 47D.

Carries like a dream, slim & light. Under an dun-tucked polo or button-down, it is my church gun in a IWB VM2 clone.

I don't own the Ruger, but I am a fan of Ruger products, too, and I doubt Ruger would put out a bad 1911.
 
Don't all of the S&W 1911s have some sort of internal safety, either S80 style or Swartz? Wouldn't that put them out of the running given the OPs preferences?

Nothing wrong with the S&Ws r the Ruger but you might consider a look at the Colt Wiley Clapp LW Commander. Great gun, nicely equipped, a great shooter, and carry worthy out of the box. I used one for a custom build and have been very happy with it.
 
Most of the S&W 1911s use a variant of the Swartz firing pin safety (released when the grip safety is depressed, rather than when the trigger is pulled like the Colt Series 80). The S&W E-Series 1911s do not use the firing pin safety.
 
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