Sawed off shotgun, not defined

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harry mudd

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"IC 35-47-5-4
Repealed
(Repealed by P.L.1-1990, SEC.350.)

IC 35-47-5-4.1
Sawed-off shotgun
Sec. 4.1. (a) A person who:
(1) manufactures;
(2) causes to be manufactured;
(3) imports into Indiana;
(4) keeps for sale;
(5) offers or exposes for sale; or
(6) gives, lends, or possesses;
any sawed-off shotgun commits dealing in a sawed-off shotgun, a Class D felony.
(b) The presence of a weapon referred to in subsection (a) in a motor vehicle (as defined under IC 9-13-2-105(a)) except for school buses and a vehicle operated in the transportation of passengers by a common carrier (as defined in IC 8-2.1-17-4) creates an inference that the weapon is in the possession of the persons occupying the motor vehicle. However, the inference does not apply to all the persons occupying the motor vehicle if the weapon is found upon, or under the control of, one (1) of the occupants. In addition, the inference does not apply to a duly licensed driver of a motor vehicle for hire who finds the weapon in the licensed driver's motor vehicle in the proper pursuit of the licensed driver's trade.
(c) This section does not apply to a law enforcement officer who is acting in the course of the officer's official duties or to a person who manufactures or imports for sale or sells a sawed-off shotgun to a law enforcement agency.
As added by P.L.1-1990, SEC.351. Amended by P.L.2-1991, SEC.107."
This is the current Indiana law on sawed off shotguns. Previously it included a definition of sawed off shotgun as having a barrel less than 18 inches and being less than 26 inches overall, but that part seems to have been repealed. What should someone do if they had such a shotgun and it was quite legal at the time, then they find that the law has been changed in this manner? The law plainly indicates that for a saw to be used on a shotgun is a felony, no matter how long it is after the work is finished. A guy might of found himself a felon overnight for something that was perfectly legal when it was done! SO....... What would the proper procedure be in this case? how does someone clear himself of felonies laid on him after the fact? Opinions anyone?
 
Interesting, seemingly a Catch-22.

However, I see several avenues of argument for defense.

One is the gun was legal under the law (and defined in law) at the time it was made. Subsequent changes to the law (including deletion of the defination paragraph) does not make your gun illegal, in and of itself (ex post facto principle).

Another is to see if a sawed off shotgun is defined anywhere else in Indiana law. IF it is, and if your gun meets legal standards there, you're good.

Another is, that since there is no definition in law (any more) that it becomes your opinion vs theirs about what is legally a sawed off shotgun. Not a very strong argument, I admit, but a valid one, until they toss you in jail!;)

You could argue that since the state has provided no definition as to what a sawed off shot gun is, there can be no crime commited with one? Thats probably not going to fly, either. However, you might have better luck getting the court to accept the Federal (ATF) definition, since the state apparently no longer provides one.

I see these as possible options, should the matter come before a court. I think the best one to pursue would be to get the court to accept the Fed definition (or create one of their own, judges love that kind of stuff!:D)
Then, once settled what a Sawed off is, you can determine if state law has been violated.

Just some thoughts, and worth what you paid for them,....Good Luck!
 
There isn't any court involvement. It's just that um..... er..... HYPOTHETICALLY...... A. guy could of found himself to be a criminal felon while reviewing state code and having a coach gun in the safe for years and years. (uh...not me you understand! It's a friend! that's it, a friend!) Obviously that "person" has to rid themself of all prohibited weapons post haste. I don't see any real good legal way to resolve this. If it WERE me....., I would be extremely angry at being legislated a felon with the stroke of a pen and since i would be a criminal anyway I might consider giving it to the first gangbanger I see. Lucky that I don't often act on my first impulse. I suppose that one could bury it for the upcoming apocalypse, but that just hides the crime instead of neutralizing it. This seems a little sticky.
 
An unmodified, factory produced coach gun of fairly recent manufacture (and in mean in the last half century or so) will meet the Federal requirements for size & barrel length.

It may not meet your state requirements, although the majority will, in the majority of states that have their own requirements. For example, most have 20" barrels, even though the Fed limit is 18", because there are (or were) a couple states that had 20" requirements.

I don't see why any legislators would delete a definition section of any law, without replacing it with another. Perhaps somewhere else in the law, but it seems like it has to be there.

Now, it could be a genuine error, perhaps a cut & paste error, even. Sadly, it has been shown lately, how few people actually read all the laws before they get passed! You might consider contacting some office of the legal system (although I have no idea who) and ask them if it really was intentional to delete the definition?

After all, if the law says it's a crime to "swarky", but they don't know what "swarky" is, how can they recognise it? And a "we'll know it when we see it" answer is not what we want from government!

If your friend's gun is not a homemade chop job, is a factory made gun, and was legal when they bought it, I would keep it. If I were arrested for havin what I fully believe is, and always has been a legal gun, I would fight in court, to the best of my ability, asking the NRA and any other progun groups for as much help as they could spare.

But thats just me. Now, if your friend just doesn't want the gun anymore, then sell it. Sell it to a gun shop. If they won't take it, because its an "illegal" gun, then sell it for parts. Some might advise, take the barrels off and destroy them.

Or, he can surrender the firearm to the police. If he truly believes the gun is not legal, that's an option. While they can, they rarely charge anyone who ( isn't already wanted for something else) turns in an illegal gun voluntarily.

Had one incident happen that I know of personally, a little old lady walks into the police station, barely being able to carry a couple of obviously heavy bundles. Turns out to be a WWII BAR, several loaded magazines and some accessories. Says her husband died a while back, and she found them in the back of his closet with his uniforms and stuff, and doesn't want them any more.

Cops took everything, said, "thank you Ma'am, you have a nice day!" and hustled her out the door. They didn't even want to know her name!
 
According to the link (thank you kozak6) there is a definition in Indiana law, so this renders the op moot.

We'll close this one, as answered.
 
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