Saving Pvt. Ryan's firearms

L

Lucas

New member
Having heard from many different sources that this is the most realistic movie of it's type, I'd like to know if the soldiers would have been armed as they were in the movie.

The Captain (Hanks) with a Thompson sub machine gun.

The Sergeant with a M1 carbine.

One member of the squad with the BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle).

One sniper with ? (I don't know bolt action rifles very well).

The rest of squad with M1 Garands.

I guess the Captain with the Thompson and the Sergeant with the carbine just kind of surprised me. Might be because of their rank they were able to arm themselves as they wished--I don't know and would like to, thanks.
 
The southpaw sniper had the M1903A4 Springfield with the M81 (or was it M82) 2 1/2 power scope. When they moved inland on their mission to find Pvt. Ryan, that Army sniper rifle became an USMC Unertl scoped Springfield with the objective lens being used for bullet drop. Incorrect, but it's so much more dramatic.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
It might be just me, but I have this to say. If I was a German sniper, my scoped Mauser would be passing over the Garands and looking for any gun under 40in. Specifically Thompsons, M1 carbines, and M3's(they did have M3's in WWII didn't they?)!

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Don't turn around, uh oh oh, der kommisar is in town, uh oh oh!
 
Josh,
Actually, if I was a sniper, I think I'd go for the heavy weapons/belt feds, then the long rifles, then the carbines and sub-guns (assuming I can't fire one shot and disappear - like the German in the tower). I think if I had a sniper rifle, I'd be more worried about the long range weapons first. If you can bag an officer, that's a bonus.

There's a book called "Co. Aytch - A Confederate Soldier's Memoirs" - the author says whenever he could, he shot at privates because "it was they that did the shooting and the killing. Why, if I could kill or wound a private, my chances were so much better"* - officers, in his opinion, were mostly harmless. Seems like sound advice to me...

* I'm quoting from memory - my apologies if I'm a little off here, but the essence of the saying is the same.

On the subject of the thread, I think I need to buy this movie and watch it again (and again, and again) to be able to answer it accurately...



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Beginner barbarians probably had the idea that every house they broke into would be full of untouched loot and frightened, unarmed victims. It just doesn't work that way, my friend.
 
Dave, everyone - if you buy this movie, be sure to buy the widescreen version (with the black strips at the top and bottom of the screen). A friend of mine rented the "normal" version and watched it with his wife (he'd seen it, she hadn't) and she didn't know what was going on a lot of the time because it was off-screen. Good movies are the only reason I still have a TV, and Saving Private Ryan is a great one.
 
Better to go for snipers first since they're your biggest threat. Then take out the leadership, communications and crew served weapons. If you're lucky, liked and listened to, the cannon cockers will take the whole lot of them out for you.

Concerning barbarians, traditionally anyone who didn't speak Greek was a barbarian. Does this mean we have a license to loot?

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
Lucas, as to your original question, the normal infantry squad in WW11 normally had assigned one BAR, one springfield 1903 ( used to launch rifle grenades) With the rest of the men armed with garands. Thompson subguns may or may not have been issued, but usually only one per squad. The sqd Ldr would have been issued a garand. The Plt Sgt and Plt Ldr (an Lt) would have been issued either carbines or garands with the LT isued a .45. Each platoon also had a weapons squad with .30 cal LMG and rocket launchers (2 of each I believe) The Co Cdr (Usually a CPT) usually had a .45 as his job was to direct the company and not fight.

In practice the CO could have anything he wanted, he is the boss. As the movie depicted a ranger unit the types of weapons may have varied slightly. Once the fighting started the numbers and types of weapons would vary greatly, and the table of organization and equipment would be thrown out the window.

The M1 carbine was supposed to replace the .45 pistol for support troops but usually found its way into the line platoons.

The depiction of the infantry squad in the movie is probably accurate, although squads were not led by Captains and senior NCO's.

Of course I wasn't around in WW2 so I could be wrong, the types of weapons varied from time to time and in different theatres of war. Also there were differences in the various types of infantry units (EX Leg Infantry, mechanized infantry and Airborne infantry).
 
In the movie, did anyone notice the use of tanker unit m-1 Garands? They look exactly like the infantry Garand, but are scaled down about 10 in. shorter. Or did I misjudge.

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Ralph in In.



[This message has been edited by GreybeardB (edited July 12, 1999).]
 
Morgan,
Thanks!!! I'll keep that in mind!

Gary,
Throughout history, there have been looters & raiders. However, your career path in a country with an armed citizenry may be a little short... ;) Remember, the Romans invited the barbarians in to fight their wars for them.

Geoff,
Sounds right to me. It was also shortly after D-Day, and things were a mess. I expect you'd see soldiers carrying a wide assortment of weaponry, and this squad was picked from the Rangers, which were usually more heavily armed than the average infantry unit. And I think if I knew I was being sent behind enemy and I was a Captain, I'd ditch the .45 pistol in favor of something useful - at least a carbine. Oh yeah - wouldn't there have been a mortar?

German infantry units would have been armed with K98 Mausers with one MG34 or MG42 and one Panzerfaust with 2 rounds per squad, if I recall. SS units would have carried more full auto - MP40's and such - but still would have been mostly armed with K98's (although captured US M1 carbines were popular with some units - on the Eastern front, many liked the PPSh smg's). Correct me if I'm wrong.

There were also a few unusually armed units. The one that comes to mind is Britain's #5 Royal Marine Commandos - they carried M1 Garands (Thompsons were popular with the Commandoes and SAS as well).
 
The sniper's PRIMARY target, under any and all circumstances, is the enemy sniper since has the same mindset as you and can predict your actions better than anyone else.
 
Don't have any personal knoldge of D-Day but my grandfater SGT A.S. Knoll K-company 36th div. was a squad leader in the Italian campain (soft underbelly my foot) and his squad was ALL M1 Garand. He did pickup a Thompson but found it lack of range and accuracy and most importantly WEIGHT of ammo far to much and ditched it for a nother M1

He did say on several occasions that he wanted a BAR in the squad but never got one. as a bizzare side note while traing in florida they were trained with the newest vunder weapon the 2.75 Bazooka.

He was the at one point the 2nd highst ranking man in comapy K. during the battle of MT Lungo (prep for casino) lost his right hip
but all in all it might have saved his life he did not have to go to casino, oh if you ever meet a T-patcher and want to here some creative language just mention Gen Mark Clark
(not in mixed company or with children present though)
 
4V50 Gary - You were right on the money.
Enemy Snipers First.
Leadership by Rank Second.
Com equipment Third.
Heavy Weapons Forth.

Dudes with short barrels are not the threat - the threat is the dudes who can take you out. One thing Snipers are very good at, but you dont hear about it enough - is calling in and directing indirect fire or air strikes. Thus doing a lot more damage with out exposing his position or warning the enemy.
Thank God Police Snipers cant do that!

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Every man Dies.
Not Every Man Truely Lives...
FREEDOM!

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
One strange aspect of all WW2 movies that I have seen is the absence of STG44s in German hands or PPS43s in Russian hands. Too hard to get props or what?

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Cornered Rat, now at bay
ddb.com/RKBA Updated March 20
"Disarm, then past the barbed wire, into the oven and out of the smoke-stack..."
 
Did anyone else notice that the American sniper fired 7 or so rounds without reloading while he was in the tower? (The Springfield has a 5 round mag.)
Also, the 30 cal. machinegun belts had no primers in a few of the scenes, dummy cartridges.

Balming
 
I just assumed that this super Billy Bad@ss sniper was just a whiz kid with a stripper clip when the camera was off him. But, come to think of it, that big-ole scope mighta gotten in the way. If there was sufficient relief for him to do it, it would only take about 3 extra seconds to reload with a stripper.

_Co. Aytch_ was a great memoir, and I used it in my honors A.P. English class back in high school in a big war-study paper. My English teacher was NOT happy to find that my paper was not a definitive work on the evils of war, but rather on how even those who'd been in the trenches described war as a necessary evil. (Byron came up once or twice. Kipling a lot.) The literary ability of a common conscripted soldier was amazing in those days. Sorry-- off-thread, but I haven't heard anyone mention that book in 10 years.

The problems with the Thompson weren't the weight of the ammo, but the weight of the SMG and the big magazines. As cool as those 50-round drums are, the 30 rounders are what you find yourself using, and, to be honest, it's the 20's that are the very handiest, because they stick out to the exact same length as the pistol-grip. But if you were going house-to house, can you think of a finer weapon, even now? I can't. All that weight begins to pay for itself when you rock and roll.

As the movie showed at the climax of the "Mexican Standoff" in the bombed-out building.
 
The sniper was also a southpaw.

The Tiger tanks were based on the Russian T34/85 (look closely at the bogie wheels and tracks). Haven't figured out what the Marders were based on and no, they weren't closed top AFVs.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
I think the arms that the infantry squad was equipped with would have been a pretty accurate rep of a wwII rifle squad.

As far as the "weapon by rank" thing. Correct me if I am wrong but I am not so sure your rank had everything to do with what weapon you carried.

I have my grandfathers photo album from "the big one." He was a PFC in the USMC on Guam and Iwo Jima. In the photos of him on Guam he has a .30 M1 carbine and a .38 Spcl revolver (which he apparently thought highly of because it NEVER malfunctioned.)

The photos of Iwo Jima (which aren't very many.I guess it wasn't a tourist vacation destination) He is armed with a Thompson Sub Machine gun and a .45 Automatic Pistol. And he was a PFC.

Most of the other people in photos have M1s. So what is the deal with the rank thing? Because he was low man on the totem pole and carried a Thompson.
 
OrsoGato...

My dad's weaponry on Iwo Jima was a flame thrower and a .38 caliber S&W revolver that his dad sent him from the states. S&W since they were from Mass. and not CT.(Colt country). He carried a .45 ACP(standard issue) with this rig in a shoulder holster at other times but switched to a .38 later on saying, "when I fire all seven rounds from a .45 the only thing I'm guaranteed to hit is the ground with the shell casings." He's hell to pay with a rifle but awful with a pistol to this day.

God bless 'em all.

Regards, Chris..

p.s. Dad was in 3rd Div., 2nd B, 21st. Guam, Bougainville, Iwo Jima..



[This message has been edited by ChrisL (edited July 27, 1999).]
 
Hey Chris L.

My grandfather was in the same division as your dad. 3rd Marine Division. He cant remember the battalion or regiment. He said he thought 28th reg. if that sounds accurate. I'll have to check history books on that one.

But he was only on Guam and Iwo Jima, not Bouganville. But like he said "that was enough islands for me." I have his picture of the 3rd division cemetary on Guam. Lots of white crosses.

"I got some buddies in there." was about the only coment i think i got from him about that one.

Any how small world i guess. Yes they "did their duty." That is another one of his.
 
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