Savage Fox jams after shooting.

B

Blindstitch

New member
I have a Savage Fox Model B BSE-c 12 gauge and I have and odd problem. When I shoot standard bulk pack Winchester AA out of the right barrel the gun jams every once in a while and the barrel opens a hair.

When I use Federal shells of any kind it never has a problem.

Only happens on the right barrel. If I put a federal in the right and a winchester in the left it perfectly functions all day long.

It's just confusing.
 
Any chance it's not fully locking into battery with the suspect ammo?
Undamaged guns shouldn't just unlock on their own when fired.
 
It looks like it's fully locking up but I suppose I can get out my calipers and measure the rim thickness or see if the shells are flush in the barrels.

What gets me even more is although this shotgun is about 30 years old it wasn't used much. Maybe 300 shells through it this year from me and before that I never saw it shot. Only sat on the shelf from the mid 80's to present.
 
I found a few threads online about other doubles and they suggest that a weak locking spring and to much oil or grease on the lug can cause this.

I'm sure this gun was cleaned at least twice a year before I got it and probably had oil residue where it shouldn't. The action was saturated when I got it but if anyone else has other ideas shout them out.
 
There have been numerous issues reported using the Winchester shells in many other guns. Either don't use them, or hone the problematic chamber with an automotive drum brake wheel cylinder hone. Little fine flat stones spring loaded. About $9 at an auto parts store. Works way better than the steel wool on a brush. Just don't let it come more than halfway out the chamber while it is spinning. Unless you are a complete doltz, it will not hurt anything.
 
Odd I just measured the Federal shells rim and it's constant around .052-.055 where the Winchester bulk pack shells are .058-.70 and the rim is more curved than the flatter Federal.

Just for grins I measured the Winchester AA reduced recoil shells that were shooting fine and their specs were the same as the federal.

Virginian-in-LA,
The hone is a great idea. I have a Mossberg 500 that gets jammed up when using winchester 3 inch shells. 2 3/4 work just fine so maybe that would help that barrel. And it would add another tool to my toolbox.
 
Why hone the bore of the chamber when it seems to be a headspace issue?
Click to expand...
Excellent point. I misread the original post, except I don't think it's a headspce issue. I may need to go take remedial reading comprehension 101. Again.
 
the steel based low end shotgun shells(winchester bulk packs) will not contract back to pre fired condition like brass based shells and if the chamber is rough will stick,i see it with pump guns mostly. if federal shells work,thats what i would use. i don,t think its headspaced as other shells don,t bind it up or cause it to open a crack. eastbank.
 
just a wild guess

If a top break smoothbore comes out of lockup with std pressure loads, most likely it isn't the ammunition that is faulty.

Anything is possible and your focus has started with with the least expensive possibility.

My Grand-Dad's top break single shot would on occasion come unhinged a bit after firing. A slightly bigger circumference on the cross pin tightened the lock up slack and the old 'Long Tom' now stays tight.

Smoothbore rookie offering a guess based on a history of one.

salty
 
More examination will be happening since I was out with it today and only had Winchester steel shot 1325 velocity. Only shot twice but the first time it shot fine and the second it locked up.

Having a bit more time to look at it and not knowing other doubles but it is a cock on opening and basically a dressy Stevens 311.

When it locked up the barrel lifted up maybe 1/16 or 1/8th from flush with the action. The top snap lever still held the barrels from opening anymore but the when held to make the barrels open up it didn't want to without a flat palm hit and it sure wasn't going back to flush with the action.

When finally open the top snap didn't lock open and swung back as if the trip had been depressed.

Fully open and ready to close it closed with some tension but the right barrel wasn't cocked. Opening it up again made it cock and ready to fire again.

Looks like this shotgun will be revolving back to the reserves for hunting while another takes its place.

The terms I used were from the Numrich site so if they don't match what people normally call the parts blame them. I'm no expert on this but i'm going to open it up and examine parts for wear.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufac...fieldFox-33479/Shotguns-40503/BSE-C-41427.htm
 
Took the shotgun apart and glad I did. The screw that holds the top snap lever was only finger tight and backed half way out.

Hopefully tightening solves my problem but since it's tore down I'm going to order replacement screws, firing pins, and other various parts that are worth having on hand.

Also noticed that the top snap plunger is pretty bent so I'll order one of those too.





Any idea of other parts I should buy since I have it apart?
 
i would not be buying any savage fox shotguns if thats all the shooting it took to devolop that trouble. i have several old fox sterlingworths that have only god know how many shells thru them since the 1920,s and they are still going strong. and i have a remington model 1900 made in 1906 with steel barrels that i shoot at vintage trap several times a year with out any problems at all(with trap loads). eastbank.
 
I don't know who did what to that gun - I have never seen anything like that before, but from a reliability standpoint there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Savage/Stevens 311/B shotguns. Totally rugged. I have seen many dogged and abused in CAS and they keep right on trucking, and they were very popular field guns many moons ago. They have a very good history. Only problems I can ever recall were on the single trigger and ejector guns when things would start sticking after they got gummy inside from years of oil sprayed into the guts and not real cleaning. Hardly a unique problem. I do not think there has been a single inexpensive double ever built since that equals them. The Stoeger double trigger extractor guns of more recent vintage are a distant second.
 
I've had 3-4 of those guns over the years, none were reliable including one bought new. Every one need gun smithing. I learned 40 years ago that the internal parts were cheaply made with poor quality materials. The BSE's are the most problematic, the basic 311's with 2 triggers and extractors instead of ejectors a little better.

They are the equivalent of the Remington 710 rifles. Cheap budget guns made 40-60 years ago that were never intended for heavy use. Almost all of them have had their useful life used up long ago. I'd consider all of the Savage 311 series as wall hangers at this point
 
Got my parts today and the top snap plunger is meant to be bent or that's the way the new one came from Numrich.

Time to reassemble. Only wish my offset screwdrivers were shorter. The top snap must have been one of the first parts savage installed.
 
Got the new parts installed and everything was tight. To tight. Pulled out the snap plunger rod and installed the old one and it opens easy again. After measuring the difference between old and new was .05 of an inch and a bit of angle.

Hopefully this works or I'll have to find a happy medium between the new and old. Maybe a small washer spacer on the rod or something.

The new snap plunger rod was actually to long to press the safety into fire position. Wonder if Numrich sent me the wrong rod like several other parts I ordered from them before. Look a likes but not alike.
 
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