Savage Axis .223 5-shot groups

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sintexas

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I just got one of these inexpensive Savages, and I'm wondering about what kind of groups at 100-200 yards are you guys getting with either factory ammo, or handloads.
 
I have the Axis Stainless in .223.

With factory ammo, I averaged about .9 MOA with ammo it liked (55 grain). PMC and WWB seemed to be the best out of the 6 I tried.

When I worked up handloads for it, it was about .6 MOA on average. 52 grain Sierra Matchking HPBT over Varget.

I have just installed the new Boyds' stock and plan to bed the action, so I am hoping to knock off that last .1 to average under 1/2 MOA. The factory stock is rather flimsy and I shoot mine on a bipod, so it flexed quite a bit. I will also probably play around with some other loads to truly see if I have found the best one for the rifle now that it will be permanently bedded in a good stock.

Check out YouTube for a video on how to modify the trigger spring by snipping a few coils off as the factory trigger is rather heavy and it does not have the Accutrigger. I know Timney also makes a drop in as well if you like Timney triggers.
 
Depends what kind of MOA shooter are you?

This is very true Taylorce,But you can not become a better shooter if you don't have the load to do it with. One can improve both . We know the Axis is capable of Sub MOA very easy. With a so so load you will never become a sub moa shooter.

You must have a rifle and a load that will shoot sub moa to get better, otherwise you are just sending lead down range.
 
I just got one of these inexpensive Savages, and I'm wondering about what kind of groups at 100-200 yards are you guys getting with either factory ammo, or handloads.
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I ordered one the other day, a stainless model also in .223, hasn't got here yet. I've done alot of reading on them and most folks seem to get 1/2 MOA with handloads without much trouble.
 
This is very true Taylorce,But you can not become a better shooter if you don't have the load to do it with. One can improve both . We know the Axis is capable of Sub MOA very easy. With a so so load you will never become a sub moa shooter.

You must have a rifle and a load that will shoot sub moa to get better, otherwise you are just sending lead down range.
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Not true, I agree you have to have a consistant rifle to shoot well. However you don't have to have a sub MOA rifle and ammo to learn to shoot well. If you have a rifle that is always a certain MOA rifle with a certain ammunition you can do a lot of things with that rifle. If you ever read about Carlos Hathcock his M70 .30-06 he used was only a 2 MOA rifle, but it was 2 MOA day in and out. So I don't subscribe to the thought you have a sub MOA rifle and load to learn to be a better shooter, however a sub MOA rifle and load is nice to work with.

My comment was my way of saying the rifle probably shoots better than the prospective buyer.
 
If you ever read about Carlos Hathcock his M70 .30-06 he used was only a 2 MOA rifle, but it was 2 MOA day in and out.
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When new, that military sniper rifle with a commercial name on it shot about 1 MOA or better at long range with good lots of M72 30 caliber match ammo. It slowly got less accurate over the years and then yes, it was a 2 MOA rifle at 1000 yards when it was retired. But it started out much better. 2500 rounds through the best of the .30-06 match rifles makes them 2 MOA shooters at long range; a well known fact among top classified shooters going back to the early 1900's.

Note that 1 MOA was the furthest a bullet struck from the point of aim (required for a 2 MOA rifle). All the others were closer. Less than 10% of those last shots through the barrel were at the outer edge of the accuracy limit; 20% in the next area about 3/4 MOA from aiming point, 30% inside the area starting about 1/2 MOA and 40% inside 1/2 MOA. If you've ever seen a 270-shot test of 1960's M72 match ammo from precision test barrels, you'll know what I mean.

GySgt Hathcock learned to shoot accurate with rifles a lot more accurate than his Win 70 .30-06 sniper rifle. He shot super accurate M14NM's and 30 caliber magnums in well built match rifles with proven handloads producing 3/4 MOA or better accuracy at 1000 yards learning how to win matches, including those at the Nationals and Interservice ones. He knew the probability of shots missing his point of aim and knew when to make a sight corrections and when not to.

Biggest advantage of having super accurate hardware when learning how to shoot well is it makes all the errors the shooter makes easy to see. With a not-so-accurate rifle, one doesn't know if the reason the bullet didn't strike their point of aim was caused by some shooter (software) error or that of the hardware (rifle and ammo). To say nothing about the conditions, such as wind, causing the shot not going to call.
 
I've gotten so far some 1-1.5 inch groups at 100 yards with an old 3-9x32 Bushnell scope, shooting Wolf and Monarch steel cased ammo, and stock trigger. At 200 it was more like 5-6 inch due to scope (and shooter) limitations and inconsistent point of aim.

I can only imagine what better ammo and a nicer trigger/scope/stock combo could get out of this little "beater" rifle.
 
Bart B.

I'm not a Carlos Hathcock or USMC Sniper historian, however I paraphrased a Jim Land quote from this article below.

USMC Sniper Rifles: Hands On History (Page 2)

Among these was the rifle that Carlos Hathcock used during his first tour in Vietnam, but Land says Carlos’ rifle was anything but a tack-driver:

“Snipers today talk about half-minute of angle. Carlos Hathcock’s rifle barrel looked like it had been sandblasted. On the inspection sheet, you’d say, ‘Slight pits throughout.’ His rifle would hold about two minutes of angle. That’s 20 inches at 1,000 yards and that’s what he had to work with.

“We had M1Cs and M1Ds available that would hold a minute of angle, but they didn’t maintain their zero.

“But Carlos’ rifle maintained its zero day in and day out.”
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taylorce1, thanks for clarifying your words. I'm familiar with Jim Land's stuff.

Most rifles pretty much maintain their zero for the life of the barrel. It's accuracy degrades over time starting with the first 100 rounds. Maintaining a zero day in and day out is different that shooting the same size groups day in and day out. At about two-thirds of a barrel's acceptable accurate life, good marksmen will notice a few shots going a bit too far from call. At about nine-tenths into it, muzzle velocity drops enough for a given load and a half MOA come up on the sight's needed at 600 yards and beyound. A few dozen rounds later, another half MOA up's needed. By then, it's easy for a good shot to notice that a lot more of his shots are not going to call.

When I talked with Carlos Hathcock at match in the late '60's he said his first M70 shot about 1 MOA at long range.
 
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Boomer--What a Awesome Idea.:D
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I head shot a bunny that ran out in front of my 100 yard target just after sighting in my 7mm mag. I couldn't help myself, it just stood there staring back at me through my scope.

I've also head shot rats at 50 yards, but mice at 100??? I'd pay to see that. I know the shot is possible but just seeing a mouse at that range is the hard part.

I can't wait to see the video :D

Boomer
 
about 1" ~ 1.5" with factory ammo from the one I had.
I traded it to a buddy of mine. He has since put in a timney trigger and just got one of the new Boyds laminate stocks for it.
If the boyds stocks had been out for them at that time i would not have traded it... Looks and feels like a whole different gun. Barrel is free floated and no stock flexing like the factory stock so it has to help accuracy.
 
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