Savage 99 Magazine Carrier
- Thread starter 82YRMAN
- Start date
Its probably the spring, hard to see how the rotor would break, but nothing is impossible, it seems.
Disassembly of the Savage 99 rotary magazine isn't terribly difficult.
RE-Assembly, is. Seeming to need special tools, at least three hands and an octopus.
The part you need, may be available from Gun Parts Corp (Numrich) but the work needed is best done by a professional, who gets paid for his frustration.
Take it to a gunsmith that knows how to work on a 99. Pay him for his trouble.
Otherwise, you could invest a lot of hours, and cusswords, and maybe even a little blood and still not have a working rifle. Its not "unfixable" but its not simple or easy.
Good Luck!
Disassembly of the Savage 99 rotary magazine isn't terribly difficult.
RE-Assembly, is. Seeming to need special tools, at least three hands and an octopus.
The part you need, may be available from Gun Parts Corp (Numrich) but the work needed is best done by a professional, who gets paid for his frustration.
Take it to a gunsmith that knows how to work on a 99. Pay him for his trouble.
Otherwise, you could invest a lot of hours, and cusswords, and maybe even a little blood and still not have a working rifle. Its not "unfixable" but its not simple or easy.
Good Luck!
I work on 99s all the time. They are not difficult to work on. You don't need special tools. But you do need a certain degree of skill, and the fact that the OP is asking this question indicates to me he does not have that skill. Take it to a gunsmith. A real gunsmith, not a parts-changer.
Hi thanks for the replies, can I start by explaining that I am not used to using forums so please forgive any mistakes.
I am from across the seas in England and although I do shoot this gun it belongs to a friend who is an amature but very able gunsmith, I have attached some photos of his work, an over and under flintlock, (the barrels rotate) he made this and others from scratch Lock Stock and Smoking Barrels.
Back to the Savage the mag is broken, the body is in more pieces than it should be, this looks like a replacement part as it is made from cast Aluminum not Brass,it was like this when brought.If is was made in Brass we could possibly repair it but sadly not in Aluminum so hoping to replace it, if not that's fine will carry on using as a single shot it is too good a gun to hang on the wall.
I am from across the seas in England and although I do shoot this gun it belongs to a friend who is an amature but very able gunsmith, I have attached some photos of his work, an over and under flintlock, (the barrels rotate) he made this and others from scratch Lock Stock and Smoking Barrels.
Back to the Savage the mag is broken, the body is in more pieces than it should be, this looks like a replacement part as it is made from cast Aluminum not Brass,it was like this when brought.If is was made in Brass we could possibly repair it but sadly not in Aluminum so hoping to replace it, if not that's fine will carry on using as a single shot it is too good a gun to hang on the wall.
Attachments
Welcome to tfl!
Nice looking flintlock!
Ok, this has me curious. From the sound of things, the magazine has already been taken apart? (If so, disregard all warnings about not doing that
)
A picture of the rifle and the broken parts (or just the magazine parts) would be VERY helpful.
We need to be careful, to avoid confusion due to different terms. I understand you aren't familiar with the terms as we use them. Not a problem as long as we can both figure out what is meant.
The "body" of a magazine is the outer shell that holds the internal parts. In the rotary magazine Savage 99 the magazine "body" is the receiver itself. (and, to be clear, we are not talking about a detachable magazine, correct?)
So it sounds like the inner part, the "spindle" shaped part that moves the cartridges is the broken part. Is this correct? (that part is often called a rotor or a carrier, I need to do a little research to find the correct name as used by the factory/parts suppliers, and should know later today...)
Anyway, Early Savages used brass, later ones, steel (visible in the cartridge counter hole, when the rifle is assembled). Never heard of an aluminium one. Aluminum, in a 1901 rifle would be highly unusual.
I will check with my Savage expert when he gets home from work tonight, but an aluminum part strongly suggests it is not original.
I did take a look at the Numrich arms web site (Gun Parts Corp), and they only ship to the US and Canada, so that might be a small problem getting the part to you in England (if they have the part)...
I'll do some research, and get back to you when I have more information. Quite possible someone else will post the answer before I do, there are many more expert in the Savage 99 than I am.
Nice looking flintlock!
Ok, this has me curious. From the sound of things, the magazine has already been taken apart? (If so, disregard all warnings about not doing that
)A picture of the rifle and the broken parts (or just the magazine parts) would be VERY helpful.
We need to be careful, to avoid confusion due to different terms. I understand you aren't familiar with the terms as we use them. Not a problem as long as we can both figure out what is meant.
The "body" of a magazine is the outer shell that holds the internal parts. In the rotary magazine Savage 99 the magazine "body" is the receiver itself. (and, to be clear, we are not talking about a detachable magazine, correct?)
So it sounds like the inner part, the "spindle" shaped part that moves the cartridges is the broken part. Is this correct? (that part is often called a rotor or a carrier, I need to do a little research to find the correct name as used by the factory/parts suppliers, and should know later today...)
Anyway, Early Savages used brass, later ones, steel (visible in the cartridge counter hole, when the rifle is assembled). Never heard of an aluminium one. Aluminum, in a 1901 rifle would be highly unusual.
I will check with my Savage expert when he gets home from work tonight, but an aluminum part strongly suggests it is not original.
I did take a look at the Numrich arms web site (Gun Parts Corp), and they only ship to the US and Canada, so that might be a small problem getting the part to you in England (if they have the part)...
I'll do some research, and get back to you when I have more information. Quite possible someone else will post the answer before I do, there are many more expert in the Savage 99 than I am.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"and, to be clear, we are not talking about a detachable magazine, correct?"
Not if it is in .303 Savage and made in 1901. Savage didn't introduce detachable magazines for the 99 until well after WW II.
The Model 1899 in .303 Savage found quite a bit of favor in England with hunters, especially those going to Asia or Africa. It was seen as an excellent combination for pot hunting to provide fresh meat.
Not sure why it found favor, maybe because of the name being similar to the .303 Enfield.
Not if it is in .303 Savage and made in 1901. Savage didn't introduce detachable magazines for the 99 until well after WW II.
The Model 1899 in .303 Savage found quite a bit of favor in England with hunters, especially those going to Asia or Africa. It was seen as an excellent combination for pot hunting to provide fresh meat.
Not sure why it found favor, maybe because of the name being similar to the .303 Enfield.
Rummage around here. The exact model 99 appears to matter. Gunparts is out of most M99 parts and they don't mention rotary mag bodies at all. They do mention carrier assemblies. Said assembly for .303 Savage is out of stock, of course.
http://www.savage99.com/index.php
http://www.savage99.com/index.php
The advice from a friend who is more up on the 99 than I am is to try and find a trashed .303 that still has a good cartridge carrier, and buy it for the parts.
Otherwise good luck finding a .303 carrier. He told me that #1, Savage didn't make .303s after WWII, and that a .30-30 carrier probably wouldn't work right. He told me about a fellow that tried to restore a .303, with a .30-30 carrier, and only got it to work when he rebarreled the rifle to .30-30.
The other point he made was what would it take to legally send the part to England, IF we could find one????
Otherwise good luck finding a .303 carrier. He told me that #1, Savage didn't make .303s after WWII, and that a .30-30 carrier probably wouldn't work right. He told me about a fellow that tried to restore a .303, with a .30-30 carrier, and only got it to work when he rebarreled the rifle to .30-30.
The other point he made was what would it take to legally send the part to England, IF we could find one????
Hi at last I have managed to get photos that I can upload,as you can see it's well and truly busted, we brought the gun at auction and this is the condition we found it in.
We are now not sure this is a 303 carrier but as we have no other to compare with every thing is just a guess.
I take note of 44AMP note about exporting, if we find one we would ask for it to be sent to an address in the USA, a friend would then try to find a way to send it, if we cannot export then we would ask him to resell it, as I said it's shoots fine as a single shot but would love to have it complete and we think it worth the trouble
We are now not sure this is a 303 carrier but as we have no other to compare with every thing is just a guess.
I take note of 44AMP note about exporting, if we find one we would ask for it to be sent to an address in the USA, a friend would then try to find a way to send it, if we cannot export then we would ask him to resell it, as I said it's shoots fine as a single shot but would love to have it complete and we think it worth the trouble
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Mike Irwin
Staff
I'm not 100% sure, but that does NOT look like a Savage manufactured part. I think it's a gunsmith-made replacement.
This is what a proper .303 shell carrier should look like:
https://www.gunauction.com/buy/9063843
I believe, but am not 100% certain, that all .303s had cast brass shell carriers.
Also, there are no shell counter numbers on the carrier base and it looks almost as if it were cast from a metal other than brass. The shell locators appear to be braised onto the carrier body, which isn't correct, and the shape of it looks to be all wrong.
This is what a proper .303 shell carrier should look like:
https://www.gunauction.com/buy/9063843
I believe, but am not 100% certain, that all .303s had cast brass shell carriers.
Also, there are no shell counter numbers on the carrier base and it looks almost as if it were cast from a metal other than brass. The shell locators appear to be braised onto the carrier body, which isn't correct, and the shape of it looks to be all wrong.
I would concur, if there are any steel .303 Savage carriers, they would be extremely rare (or possibly "homemade"). Savage switched from brass to steel carriers after WW II (if my info is correct) and didn't make any .303s after WWII. I've learned that when dealing with firearms, its not wise to use never" because when you do, someone will come up with an exception.
so, what I'll say is that my sources indicate Savage made very few, if any .303s and .30-30 model 99s after WWII. And, if they did make any, with new parts the new carrier would have been steel rather than brass.
I'll keep looking/asking around, if anything suitable is found, I'll post here.
Good Luck!
If it were a Savage made part, it would be stamped 303, like the one in the picture Mike linked to.
Savage made carriers out of bronze early on, then brass after WW2, then after 1955-ish they used steel (no counter) or aluminum (counter models). I have a couple of very early 1899s with bronze spools.
Savage made carriers out of bronze early on, then brass after WW2, then after 1955-ish they used steel (no counter) or aluminum (counter models). I have a couple of very early 1899s with bronze spools.
I found an early style one on Ebay. Is this the right part? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Savage-189...RUAAOSw86JadOXo:sc:USPSFirstClass!32129!US!-1
Mike Irwin
Staff
Hard to tell for certain as it doesn't show the caliber marking. You'd need to contact the seller to get that information before ordering.
Also, $150 seems to be EXTREMELY high to me.
Also, $150 seems to be EXTREMELY high to me.
Everything seems high to me these days...
On the other hand, we're talking about a part that rarely breaks, from an uncommon rifle, that went out of production about 70-80+ years ago. The supply is essentially non-existent They don't grow on trees and you can't get them at WalMart. So, its kind of a sellers market price wise.
I'd make extremely sure it was the right part, before buying, if humanly possible, an make sure you understand the return policy, if there is one...
Mike Irwin
Staff
You're right.
Sounds like $150 billion is the right price.
I'm actually commenting from the standpoint of seeing these parts at gunshows over the years. Yes, they're uncommon, but they're not made from Unobtainium Unicorn Farts, and certainly shouldn't be priced as if they are as rare as a Democrat who tells the truth.
Sounds like $150 billion is the right price.
I'm actually commenting from the standpoint of seeing these parts at gunshows over the years. Yes, they're uncommon, but they're not made from Unobtainium Unicorn Farts, and certainly shouldn't be priced as if they are as rare as a Democrat who tells the truth.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Ah CRAP.
I forgot that the OP is in England, and Unicorn Farts are more common over there than gunshows.
I forgot that the OP is in England, and Unicorn Farts are more common over there than gunshows.
At that price we would have to sell off a couple of our unicorns to cover it, we do have 1 or 2 gun shows over here, one this weekend only $70 entrance fee!!!
I know what you mean about prices they are going crazy over here as well,$150 is not value for money plus we still have the problems getting to over here which may prove impossible, would gamble $50 -$60 to have the gun complete but we only shoot targets at the range so single shot is fine.
I know what you mean about prices they are going crazy over here as well,$150 is not value for money plus we still have the problems getting to over here which may prove impossible, would gamble $50 -$60 to have the gun complete but we only shoot targets at the range so single shot is fine.