Savage 110 w/ the age old vertical stringing prob.

H

hal9000

New member
Morning all, I'm kinda hoping somebody has some savage specific knowledge and can save me some headaches in getting my "yard sale gun" tuned. This is a 90's vintage Savage 110, 30-06 that I picked up (yep, at a yard sale) because the previous owner "couldn't get it to group". After finding and fixing a loose front scope mount and small split in the stock near the rear action screw I was consistently getting about 2MOA out of it, which definitely isn't stellar. So I added aluminum pillars front and rear, bedded the action, floated the barrel and the tang. Now at 100 yd I'm getting sub MOA groups horizontally, but my three shot groups are stringing vertically at about 1.5 MOA using Factory loaded Nosler Accubond 180's.

I've checked the Scope (an inexpensive Simmons 6x18) for parallax issues and that doesn't appear to be the problem, the trigger break is clean and consistent as well. Before I start searching randomly for other problems I thought I'd ask if anybody knows if there's a "common culprit" for this model rifle?

Thanks all.
 
No problem I'm aware of...

Assuming you're keeping a decent amount of time between strings to avoid overheating the light contour barrel.

I know "everyone" says to free-float the rear tang on Savages...but I did not with my custom 7-08 and it shoots cloverleafs. You might want to bed the rear tang and see what happens- you can always grind it back out with a Dremel if it's detrimental.

Also suggest you check action screw torque. I've never owned a three-screw LA, but there could be an issue with stressing the receiver with incorrect or uneven torque:

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/savage-action-screw-torque-tuning/

There's always a chance it just doesn't like the Accubonds. I would try several types/weights of factory ammo if you don't handload.

Finally, could just be the barrel... that's the good thing about Savages. $200-$300 and you've got a new match-grade one.
 
I actually DO handload, but haven't had the time to work anything up for this rifle yet and since I'm planning to use it for elk in about three weeks I'm just trying to get it in good shape for the hunt. I'll get nerdy with it later. If it turns out to just be an ammo issue I'll be happy, but Id have expected some lateral spread as well if that were the case.

This is not a three screw action. Two only.

My three shot strings were shot with about 1-2 min between shots, and probably 5 min between strings. The rifle wasn't in the sun. I wouldn't rule out barrel heating, I follow the same practice when sighting in my other rifles and it's never been an issue.
 
Everyone is high on free floating the barrel & for obvious good reasons. But some rifles shoot better, sometimes much better, with slight to moderate forend tip pressure. The good thing is that it is easy to try on a floated barrel using some cardboard shims. Definitely worth a try.

FWIW...

...bug
 
The problem with a pressure point to the barrel from a pressure point is it is not the same all the time. When the pressure chhanges, so does the elevation zero. Fortunately, most people cannot tell the difference

What that pressure point does is usually some compensation for a poorly fit receiver in the stock. Early Winchester 70's had a screw pressing the fore end tip up against the barrel. Shimming their receivers in the stock for a tighter fit, removing that screw then verifyingthe barrel was clear of the fore end typically made them shoot more accurate.
 
Vertical stringing may also be a result of how you hold the rifle and/or allow it to recoil. Inconsistent recoil attenuation is a common problem with long range target shooting with heavier recoiling rifles and shows up even at short(100 yards is short vs. 600 or 1000).
 
1.5 MOA from a yard sale gun?

And you are complaining? It's ok, I'd be complaining too, only accurate rifles are interesting.

Well, if it were my rifle I would bed the first 6 inches of the barrel, under the chamber. Sometimes that is enough to change the harmonics without going to a pressure bed on the forearm tip.

Jimro
 
If there is a problem with the rifle, and not the ammo, I'd look at these possible problem areas:

1. Free-floating may not be done to keep the barrel from bouncing off the forend. Make sure there's at least 1/16" all-around, but especially at the bottom.

2. Make sure there's clearance between the bottom of the recoil plate and bedding. Often, people forget to have at least two layers of tape under the plate, causing the action to rock on it.

3. Scopes are always suspect. If all else fails, try another scope.

Good luck, and don't forget to let us know if you find out what the problem is.
 
I think people are missing an important part of the equation. Take the rifle home and go back out the next day. If the first shot the next day matches the location of the first shot of the previous day and then the stringing begins then I would chalk it up to barrel changing POI as it warms.

Other than that, I can see only one other possibility. If the OP is cleaning his barrel after each range day and the first shot is on a clean barrel then the POI is rising as the barrel fouls. If that is the case, half a dozen shots would make it "settle in".
 
I second post #6...
Used gun, no history. Assuming the barrel has no permanent issues (as in, "shot-out"), if the OP did not strip all the copper fouling from the barrel to get a "baseline" that would be my first move.
 
Hey guys, thanks for all the interest and responses. It's been a rough week at work so far so I haven't been checking the thread... Anyway let's see what I can answer based on the recent responses.

(hooligan and tobnpr) I haven't tried to clean the copper fouling out and that's definitely my first course of action at this point. I'll do that and re torque the action screws at the same time that I check the bedding for binding . If that doesn't do it then I'll try the other low hanging fruit (shim under the forend) before just calling it good enough to hunt this year and worrying later.

(reynolds 357) The pillars and bedding are sound. I'm going to check for signs of binding or twisting of the action in the bedding but it's a quality job.

(Mobuck) I'm a former competitive shooter. Out of practice maybe but I think my technique is pretty good.

(Jimro) I've never owned a gun that I couldn't make shoot sub moa with anything more than a little finessing. I think most people blame their guns for their own bad shooting habits.

(Picher) Yup, two layers of tape around the perimeter of the recoil lug when it was bedded. The scope is inexpensive, but has a proven track record on other rifles. I haven't seen any signs of the barrel contacting the barrel channel, but I'll get my magnifiers out to be sure next time. Thanks for the suggestion.

(Doyle) I don't clean between every shooting day in most cases. Fouling shots aren't the issue. But from what I've read it seems like a lot of savage shooters have barrel temp woes. I've never had to deal with that before but I wouldn't rule it out at this point.
 
It could be the ammo. Primer problems can cause vertical stringing. Even the best brands toss out a less than stellar lot from time to time.

When I was first shooting center-fire rifles I had a some pretty serious vertical stringing and it was because I had 2 boxes of bad Norma ammo. Even my first reloads with a Lee Loader shot better.

Tony
 
Hal9000: Press the barrel down to the forend. If it is easy to press them together and/or less than 1/16" for it to touch the bottom of the barrel channel, the channel may need to be opened further.
 
I've seen the "dollar bill" test to check for barrel free-float, but prefer the "business card" test...

The thickness of a piece of currency doesn't leave any room at all for forend flex, or dimensional changes. Natural wood in particular can easily swell to the point of contacting the barrel; light plastics/composites can flex enough just from being placed on bags, a rest, or bipod to do the same. IMO, a little extra clearance assures absence of contact under any conditions.
 
Thanks again guys.

I've tried other ammo and so far the Nosler stuff has given better results than the others, so I don't think its an ammo problem.

The barrel channel had pretty good clearance, but I've gone ahead and scraped down a few high spots just in case there was an issue with contact. I've also scraped down any other wood that might have been contact with the receiver for good measure, cleaned the copper deposits out of the barrel (more than I had anticipated, but not excessive), and did a bit of trigger work. Hopefully I'll get the chance to take it out tomorrow and see if addressing the low hanging fruit has made any difference.
 
I managed to get out and do a bit of shooting this morning. Happily, everything looks good now (aside from a few issues with zeroing the scope). I'm seeing no signs of vertical stringing at this point. As a matter of fact my vertical spread is generally tighter than horizontal now, and the horizontal spread is probably mostly shooter error (my vertical hold is better than horizontal).

Thanks for the help everyone.
 
Just by way of a final update, this rifle is now shooting 1/2" groups at 225 yards with off the shelf ammo (Nosler 180 gn accubonds). Once I get the time to develop a decent hand load for it I expect that I'll be able to improve on that a little bit.... Probably not much though.

Not bad for a cheap second hand gun that I bought at a yard sale :)
 
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