SAR1 Maintenance Info Request - Jamming

4

44 Dan

New member
I'm not new to firearms in general, just new to AK's.
How much lubrication does a new Romanian SAR1 require?

The hammer looks to be taking a pretty good beating. Lot's of surface contact marks - looks like it is made of some very soft metal. Is this normal??

I've stripped it and cleaned it with Carb Cleaner/Gasoline to take off the cos. Now I'm using CLP, Hoppes#9 for cleaning and Gunslik oil to "litely" lube contact areas. I'm having recurring sporadic failure to fully eject jams. This occurs with different mags at different ammo levels (mags are Romanian 30rd - ammo is Wolf FMJ&HP). The spent case is ejected back into the action causing the bolt to get jammed up. Pulling the bolt back and shaking out the spent case along with the next round that was stripped off the top of the mag easily clears the malfunction. Any clues as to what may be causing this? The weapon has approximately 1,000rds run through it and has been cleaned about five times.

Sorry folks but I've tried other AK specific web sites and got no replys. Some flames because AK's just do not jam. Maybe I got a lemon, I know that could be a possibility but I thought some of the Pro's here could shed some light toward this AK Newby.

Thanks For Any Reply's, 44 Dan
 
I am not an AK expert, but have a few thoughts.

To answer your first question, the AK should work fine with no lube at all. I lightly oil my bolt, bolt carrier and guides (?) but that is all. No lube ever on the gas piston.

Have you tried posting at http://www.ak-47.net/vb/index.php, in the Romanian forum (scroll pretty far down)? Do a search on that forum and you will find LOTS of info.

There have been a few problems with "soft hammers" (sounds like you got one) and bad geometry in the fire control group (trigger, etc.) These guns are imported by Century Arms, then re-manufactured with some US parts (including the fire control group) to make them BATF legal to use standard-capacity magazines. Century is known for hit-or-miss qualilty, both on parts quality and assembly quality.

I have heard several incidences of fire control group parts either incorrectly installed, or not properly shaped, that would drag on the bolt as it cycled. That is one possible explanation for the FTE symptom.

Looks to me like you have several options.

1. Return the gun where you purchased and ask them to repair/replace. I would try this at any rate.

2. If you are pretty handy, you may be able to fix it with instructions gleaned from AK47.net. I fixed a minor problem with my SAR that way. This would probably involve grinding down some improperly-formed parts, and/or re-installing them properly.

3. You could replace the fire control group yourself (with US-made parts). This is not terribly expensive nor difficult, if you can fix other mechanical devices. Remember, the Ak-47 was designed to be maintained by non-experts.

4. Take it (or send it) to a 'smith who is familar with the AK-47 and it should be a simple, inexpensive fix. Lots of them are regulars at AK-47.net.

Good luck. You'll like the rifle once you get it fixed.
 
Will it eject rounds properly if manually cycled? Have you blasted clean the gas port by taking the gas tube off and squirting some gun scrubber or brake cleaner down the hole? You could have some gunk stuck in there. That's the only thing I can think of that would reduce bolt velocity. Did you clean out all of the cosmoline in the recess for the recoil spring? As for the hammer, keep checking it (or post a picture). If it gets worse, you could replace it with a US part from a company such as Tennessee guns or KVAR. Theoretically that is illegal, but as to how someone determines that an unmarked chunk of steel is definitely a US part, without spending a lot of money and time, I don't know.
 
I second the recommendation about cleaning the gas port. The bolt needs to operate at full speed in order to clear the spent casing and load the next cartridge. A pipe cleaner works pretty well at cleaning out the gunk if you don't have a gas port tool.

I too have a soft hammer. My decision is just to shoot the thing until it disintegrates and then replace it with a Romanian hammer and disconnector.

As decreed by our BATF, you must have a minimum number of US made parts to remain legal, so if you take off a US part and replace it with an imported part, you've got to put a US part on the rifle elsewhere. Several combinations will work. Some people use US floor plates and followers in their mags, but then you have to modify all your mags to remain legal. Plus those US followers don't get the best reviews. The easiest thing to do is to replace your butt stock and fore grip with either a US made wooden stock set or a US made synthetic set like that offered by KVAR. The entire stock set counts as two parts, so you can replace the hammer and disconnector, but not the trigger.

As far as ordering the fire assembly, I'd use KVAR or Tapco. I ordered one from Tennessee Guns. Two weeks later, I called back to check on the order. "What order?" was the response. They'd lost it, and I had to reorder. Then, when I got it, I was not happy that they'd charged double the shipping they quoted on the phone. I wrote a letter and explained my dissatisfaction. Someone from Tennessee Guns did call me back and promised to refund the difference in the quoted shipping and the amount they charged. Guess that check is still in the mail. I've never gotten it. I won't do business with Tennessee Guns again.
 
Wow, Thanks for the rapid replys.
I'm familiar with AKnet and the Romanian section. I've gleaned quite a lot of info from there, but could not find anything regarding my particular problem. I bought one of the last remaining AK's in my area so there are none left to swap out for. I'll most likely find me a smith because I'm keeping this lil jewel. I know a couple of Tactical Guys down in Phoenix that could probably turn me on to somebody ~

Unless someone here knows a good AK Smith down in the Phoenix Az area??


I've huffed and puffed and tried to blow the damn thing up - regarding cleaning the cosmoline out of the gas ports, nooks and cranny's. I doubt there could still be anything down there but I'll give the system another shot. I hose it out with carb cleaner then hit it with 100lbs of air from my compressor via small rubber tipped air nozzle. I spray the carb cleaner until the liquid comes clear. I'm probably guilty of over lubing and I use a small amout of CLP on the piston and channel but again I blow off most of the excess.


*Sometimes if I work the action real slow manually the bolt will hold open like it's dragging somewhere* I'm thinking this should be a fairly smooth action.


I can manually cycle rounds through it with little effort.
The jams only occur while slow firing (learned about bumping, 'fun' but not for me). Semi rapid fire with short 2 or 3 round burst it functions fine.

Sounds like I may need to have an AK Doc take a look at her.

Thanks Folks
 
Thanks Dave R - That thread did shed some light on my problem. I took it to an experienced Gunsmith and without him doing a full disassemble he could only guess that it was the Wolf ammo. He said they (SAR1) were sloppy guns to begin with and none of them function with sloppy ammo like Wolf or Barnaul. I tried to explain to him that many many people are using the Russian ammo with zero problems but he didn't go for it. Oh Well I can strike him off my list of knowledgeable Gunsmiths. He seemed to be miffed about the whole AK thing anyway. :mad:

I told him that I also owned an AR-10A2 along with other American firearms so he let me out of his shop unharmed:D

One thing I noticed when I went and inspected my "clean" AK was the chamber was quite dirty - not cleaned properly. This may be the culprit (it's not the gun-it's the owner). I cleaned all kinds of stuff out of there, my guess it is the burnt lacquer from the Wolf that has never been completely cleaned out from the beginning. After thinking about it the first 400rds or so went problem free. The eject problems started coming later (ie:burnt laquered chamber?). The chamber will need more attention than what I am used to.

I'll take it out tommorrow and check it out. Will advise and Thanks Again All, 44 Dan
 
Get your hands on some pipe cleaners. For some ideas where to start looking, try cigar/tobacco stores, Wal-Mart, & mom-n-pop drug stores.
As youth taught us when buying contraceptives, you can avert suspision of buying the pipe cleaners for drug use by buying pocket-combs, toothbrushes, nickel candy, and magazines along with your purchase of pipe cleaners :D.

With the right bend, you can get a pipe cleaner in the gashole. I swear I think there's still some crud in there.

Good luck man.
 
Ahhh Hah! Slaps forehead.

The old burnt Wolf lacquer thing. We all should have thought of that earlier. The burnt Wolf Laquer thing is suspected of causing FTEs is all manner of 9mm, .45ACP and even Russian firearms.

If your AK gets really hot (have you been bump firing with drums?) it apparently does nasty things with that laquer. Wolf will probably deny that its possible, but I hear about it on several boards.

I clean my chamber separately from the bore--I use a .410 mop. Anybody have any better solutions? I don't want to use a .40 or .45 brush, and then either have to reverse it or push it on through my teeny .22 bore.

Other ideas?
 
*Sometimes if I work the action real slow manually the bolt will hold open like it's dragging somewhere* I'm thinking this should be a fairly smooth action.
Click to expand...
Not a problem. I can actually get my bolt to stay open by retracting the bolt and letting it go forware slllooowly. Brush that lacquer out and get back to us! Also, keep an ear out for weird recoil and muzzle blast-indicating bad ammo. Also, don't bump fire or run strings of 60+rounds in a hurry. That really does contribute to melting the lacquer and gumming up the chamber. There is a new brand of cheap ammo out there called Silver Bear. It uses a nickeled steel case instead of lacquered steel. Price is only a few bucks more per 1k.
 
Never heard of the burnt laquer thing, but thanks for the heads up.

My bolt will also stay open if it's gently eased forward till it catches, but if you bump the rifle, it will spring closed.
 
the burnt laquer thing caused me considerable problems in my .45 and I eventually took it to a smith who polished the chamber. I wouldn't have thought it was a problem in an AK, but I have only used S&B and the russian hollowpoints in mine (so far). The smith told me that occasionally I should take some 0000 steel wool on a stick and polish my chamber occasionally. I'll bet if you polished that SAR's chamber, the laquer would have a harder time sticking as well.
 
yankytrash - Ye pipe cleaner comes out clean and I checked inside the barrel to see if I may have pushed something through-Nope.

Dave R - I did some filing per the thread you highlighted. I had simular areas of excess metal build up and took just a little off then polished the areas fairly smooth. I have one very nice trigger now but she still suffers FTE's. "Shoot #1" First FTE came at round #86, next #28, #36, #12 ARGHHHH!!. I let it cool and burnt up 400rds of Radway Green 7.62NATO in my AR-10A2 (malfunction 0). "Shoot #2"I cleaned the SAR1 chamber/barrel and she went 192rds before FTE. "Shoot #3" I let it cool, shot up some 9mm Glock26 then cleaned chamber/barrel and she went 162rds before FTE.
All FTE's occured with different Romanian 30rd mags. I have 1 Romanian 10rd mag that I shot and loaded it over and over (10 times=100rds) with no FTE's. That was during Shoot#2.

I'm thinking bad Wolf ammo. I can't find anything else due to ammo shortages. I really want to try some Barnaul, South African or Billy Bob's AK Mojo Special ~ Anything besides Wolf so I can rule out ammo.

Next I'm trying 0000 steel wool to try and give the chamber a little smoother surface (Thanks Pariah). I did this with my AR and "The Babe" shoots flawless. The SAR chamber is very rough, I mean it doesn't come close to my AR's and I'm aware that we don't want to over polish.

Man what a pain (challenge). The SAR is surprisingly accurate, I'll have to get me a Red Dot of some type down the road after I get her to shoot like an AK.

I REALLY Appreciate All The Ideas And Help. We'll Whoop This Dog Yet ~ And That's For Damn Sure! If this was anything else it would be gone in a blink, but I just love this Lil Rocker.
I'm Standing By, 44 Dan
 
UPDATE

Well I finally got some South African from CTD. She went 200rds ZERO malfunctions with the SA then I put in a mag of wolf and had a FTE at #22 ~ then I shot another 150rds of SA flawlessly. :D I guess mine just doesn't like Wolf.

The hammer is still getting heavily marred. I guess it is made of some very soft metal.

Thanks for all the advice, I really appreciate you folks so I thought ya'll would like to know that it was an ammo thing.

Ya'll Be Safe, 44 Dan
 
Thanks for the update.

Yeah, "soft hammers" are a known issue with SAR's. Sounds like you've got one. Depending on where you got it, maybe your dealer will replace? If no, a replacement hammer is not expensive. And it is not too tough to replace. In fact, this thread at AK-47.net covers that topic.

http://www.ak-47.net/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24887

I'm glad to hear that your jams were ammo related, and not the rifle. Your chamber must be tight, though. My SAR has never had a problem with Wolf. Of course, I've never shot 200 rounds in one session, either. Usually more like 60 per session for me.
 
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